The BMW UUC Digest Volume 3 : Issue 470 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: WOB - I want 13 speeds! (was new ZF) Re: WOB - I want 13 speeds! (was new ZF) Re: WOB - I want 13 speeds! (was new ZF) Re: <E36> M3 tires Re: <E36> M3 tires Re: <E36> M3 tires Street vs. Track tires at the track Re: Street vs. Track tires at the track Re: Street vs. Track tires at the track Re: Street vs. Track tires at the track Re: Street vs. Track tires at the track Re: Street vs. Track tires at the track Re: Street vs. Track tires at the track Re: Street vs. Track tires at the track Re: <E36> M3 tires
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 15:56:56 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [email protected] Subject: WOB - I want 13 speeds! (was new ZF) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/EATON-FULLER-RTOO14613-13-SPEED- TRANSMISSION_W0QQitemZ290110843519QQihZ019QQcategoryZ50466QQcmdZViewItem Quoting Kazuto Okayasu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > At 11:22 AM 5/2/2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > This really seems like a one-upsmanship race more than actually > making real technological strides. CVTs really seem more ideal from > an efficiency standpoint (market reluctance to 'rubber-banding' > notwithstanding). In theory, can't conventional ATs be designed with > an arbitrarily large number of speeds by just stacking more planetary > gearsets? > > ZF 6AT MY02 > MB 7G-Tronic MY03 > Aisin 8-speed MY07 > > I mean, really... > > > >http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/070502/20070502006127.html?.v=1 > > > >-Kevin > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > This e-mail communication is confidential and is intended only > > for the individual(s) or entity named above and others who have > > been specifically authorized to receive it. If you are not the > > intended recipient, please do not read, copy, use or disclose > > the contents of this communication to others. Please notify the > > sender that you have received this e-mail in error by replying > > to the e-mail. Please then delete the e-mail and any copies of > > it. Thank you. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > >Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > > > >__________________________________________________________________________ > >In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > > >UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > >Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > >908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > > Kazuto Okayasu Manager, Desktop Support Services > Administrative Computing Services, University of California, Irvine > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 16:15:19 -0400 From: KMS- Brett Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: uuc Digest <[email protected]> Subject: Re: WOB - I want 13 speeds! (was new ZF) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Why not just put in a 36spd Road Ranger and be done with it. Brett Anderson KMS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/EATON-FULLER-RTOO14613-13-SPEED- > TRANSMISSION_W0QQitemZ290110843519QQihZ019QQcategoryZ50466QQcmdZViewItem ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 17:13:55 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [email protected] Subject: Re: WOB - I want 13 speeds! (was new ZF) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I found an 18 speed automatic http://www.roadranger.com/Roadranger/productssolutions/transmissions/autoshift1 8-speed/index.htm but not 36 - but I guess if you dropped in a 2-speed rear end that would get you there. At 33" long and 740 LBS, it's not going to be an easy conversion. There's an 18 speed manual too - but still about the same size - just a little lighter. http://www.roadranger.com/Roadranger/productssolutions/transmissions/low- inertiasuper18/index.htm Quoting KMS- Brett Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Why not just put in a 36spd Road Ranger and be done with it. > > Brett Anderson > KMS > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/EATON-FULLER-RTOO14613-13-SPEED- > > TRANSMISSION_W0QQitemZ290110843519QQihZ019QQcategoryZ50466QQcmdZViewItem > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 13:05:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Carlos Lopez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Chet Dawes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Tammer Farid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [email protected] Subject: Re: <E36> M3 tires Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -- Chet Dawes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm anxious to try out the RA-1. I've heard many good reviews! Who > knows, perhaps they will be my next 'utility player' favorite. :) Ahh that's the problem grasshoppa, you haven't lived until you've driven RA-1s in the rain. :-) In a torrential downpour at Mid-Ohio I was passing street tire shod cars like they were standing still. Some actually didn't let me pass so I would pit, wait 10 seconds, re-enter and catch them again in less than a lap. Those same tires at Putnam a year later were still much, much, faster than my Kumho MXs in heavy rain. RA-1s just plain and simply rock! Once they wear down to no grooves then you can slide in 'em like a mad man in the dry and still go relatively fast (compared to say a Hoosier GAC tire). Carlos. 98 M3 89 325i __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 13:12:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Carlos Lopez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: <E36> M3 tires Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --- Andre Yew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Not sure about the street, but on the track, I've seen RA-1s bald in >one track day. Obviously, this depends on the track, your car, and >your driving style. Yeah I would steer away (no pun intended) from people who kill a set of R compound tires that are supposed to wear like iron in one day. Either they should be driving F1 or not really be on the track. You decide. :-) Now if they were driving 7-ers as their track cars then I can understand <g>. Ben Keyes, Jack Money, and I once shared a set of RA-1s that 4 years later were still OK to drive on the track and I believe some guy in a Honda had raced on them once already. They never did cord we just threw them out when nobody wanted to store them anymore. They sat out in the snow, my E30 M3 got wrecked, fixed and a year later Jack and I were still having tons of fun with those tires at Putnam Park. Given this was on lightish E30s (sub 2700 lb cars), Ben's E30 even had an S52 in it. Carlos. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 15:34:52 -0600 From: Clarence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Carlos Lopez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: <E36> M3 tires Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> A most fun thread. But I ran the RA-1s last year on my stock E30 and the outside edge is wearing terribly. Dunno. Maybe there's something I'm doing wrong. Otherwise, I really like the tire. I do believe that Blackhawk is pretty hard on tires. I got the RA-1s after running Bridgestone's RE-750s (2 sets) and deciding that I was beating them up too quickly at the track. But, now I've got a used set of SO2s for the street and am simply amazed at how much better they handle street corners than the 750s. Clarence West Bend, WI Carlos Lopez wrote: > > Yeah I would steer away (no pun intended) from people who kill a set of > R compound tires that are supposed to wear like iron in one day. > Either they should be driving F1 or not really be on the track. You > decide. :-) > > Now if they were driving 7-ers as their track cars then I can > understand <g>. Ben Keyes, Jack Money, and I once shared a set of > RA-1s that 4 years later were still OK to drive on the track and I > believe some guy in a Honda had raced on them once already. They never > did cord we just threw them out when nobody wanted to store them > anymore. They sat out in the snow, my E30 M3 got wrecked, fixed and a > year later Jack and I were still having tons of fun with those tires at > Putnam Park. Given this was on lightish E30s (sub 2700 lb cars), Ben's > E30 even had an S52 in it. > > Carlos. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 13:33:35 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Kirk Lachman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: BMW UUC Digest <[email protected]> Subject: Street vs. Track tires at the track Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Ok, listen up and listen up good. ;-) I've run both street and R-compound tires at the track in DEs. Lots of DEs. Bunches. For all the reasons previously stated on both sides of the discussion. I have come to a conclusion or two on this subject over the last decade plus of track events. If you want to have fun at the track, go fast, not push things too much, and learn nothing, then by all means run R-compound track tires (Hoosiers? Ya gotta be kidding me for a DE unless you've used up their heat cycles at race events, get some Toyo RA-1s, Kumhos, Avons, etc. instead). Now, if you want to have a ton of fun at the track, push the limits of adhesion on every corner and braking zone, learn all about car control, slip angles, and a bunch of other neat stuff, but not have as quick of lap times, then run street tires (affectionately called "stones"). I have a vivid memory of Blaine McNutt, Carl McGinn, and Ralph Warren (three very accomplished drivers) in E30 M3s at Buttonwillow driving nose to tail into Sunset (Turn 1 going counter clockwise), all three of them in nearly identical four wheel drifts, all on street tires (and not going all that slowly either). I ran street tires on my '92 525i 5-speed after that at DE's and began having as much fun as they were (including 4 wheel drifts, passing E36 M3s, etc. -- no where near as fast though). Now I'm at a point where doing the same thing on R-compound tires isn't a problem, but I got there by getting comfortable doing it on street tires. I'm still slower than the really fast guys I run with now, but I'd even be further back w/o the experience of running on street tires at DEs. Yeah, good street tires are expensive as heck and you might want to consider a budget performance tire like a Kumho 712 (which slide with the slightest provocation) or Kumho MX or Yoke or ???. But there is no limit to the fun you can have on street tires at a DE event. You can have even more at an autocross on street tires, although you absolutely will not be competitive (so run them during the fun runs). Once you can lap the A group on stones, then go to R-compounds and lap 'em twice in one session. And do it in an underpowered car. Cheers, Kirk Lachman Sin City Chapter '95 M3 #21 I-stock running Toyo RA-1s ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 13:49:21 -0700 From: Mark Dadgar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Street vs. Track tires at the track Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On May 2, 2007, at 1:33 PM, Kirk Lachman wrote: > Now, if you want to have a ton of fun at the track, push the limits > of adhesion on every corner and braking zone, learn all about car > control, slip angles, and a bunch of other neat stuff, but not have > as quick of lap times, then run street tires (affectionately called > "stones"). I have a vivid memory of Blaine McNutt, Carl McGinn, > and Ralph Warren (three very accomplished drivers) in E30 M3s at > Buttonwillow driving nose to tail into Sunset (Turn 1 going counter > clockwise), all three of them in nearly identical four wheel > drifts, all on street tires (and not going all that slowly either). > I ran street tires on my '92 525i 5-speed after that at DE's and > began having as much fun as they were (including 4 wheel drifts, > passing E36 M3s, etc. -- no where near as fast though). > > Now I'm at a point where doing the same thing on R-compound tires > isn't a problem, but I got there by getting comfortable doing it on > street tires. I'm still slower than the really fast guys I run > with now, but I'd even be further back w/o the experience of > running on street tires at DEs. I could not agree more. In fact, read my column in the April 2007 issue of the GGC newsletter (page 23): <http://www.ggcbmwcca.org/download/bombe/bombe07apr.pdf> - Mark ----- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Check out my JustRacing homepage at: http://www.justracing.com/homepage/mdadgar ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 13:47:17 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jim Bassett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Street vs. Track tires at the track Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On Wed, May 2, 2007 1:33 pm, Kirk Lachman said: > Now I'm at a point where doing the same thing on R-compound tires isn't a > problem, but I got there by getting comfortable doing it on street tires. > I'm still slower than the really fast guys I run with now, but I'd even be > further back w/o the experience of running on street tires at DEs. Oh, so THAT'S how you've done it :-) Jim Bassett - flailing around trying to keep up with Kirk :-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 13:53:11 -0700 From: Bob Sutterfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Street vs. Track tires at the track Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> If you want to scare your instructor at a driving school, show up for the D group in your E[34]6 M3 with a list of go-fast mods as long as your arm, on R-compound track tires. For bonus points, say you know this track from Forza so you won't really be needing much of the instructor's help, thank you very much. Watch your assigned instructor suddenly contract pneumonia or malaria or ebola or whatever it takes to get out of riding with you. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 14:11:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Andre Yew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Street vs. Track tires at the track Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On Wed, 2 May 2007, Bob Sutterfield wrote: > If you want to scare your instructor at a driving school, show up for > the D group in your E[34]6 M3 with a list of go-fast mods as long as > your arm, on R-compound track tires. They don't scare so easy these days. I think it takes a Supra detuned to "only" 700 HP shooting flames from its exhaust to even wake them up sometimes. ;) Carlos, The 1-track day RA-1s were on a Subara WRX with all sorts of mods, including a fairly aggressive suspension and alignment, running at Sears Point. One of its tires lost its treads in a day, though the tire was still very useful. It was at a BMW CCA school, and the driver was pretty fast and smooth, so I don't think overt hooliganism wore out his treads. Said driver is also a good auto-Xer, so he probably knows what he's doing. --Andre ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 14:49:50 -0700 From: "JS Nord" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Street vs. Track tires at the track Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I'd say you'd have a better chance scaring your instructor by combining any of the following in random order: - early apexes - abnormal and varying lines each lap - random corner braking and throttle changes - driving up the ass of the leading car in a braking zone while 'attempting' heel toe technique - red mist utterances - heavy breathing with occasional grunting into the communicator mic - attempts to drive at 11/10ths while in scary fast cars D groupers rarely scare me. It's the guys in C who think they should run in A usually that do. Just enough seat time to think they know what they are doing without enough experience or humility to know what they don't. I'm sure this could be a great thread in it's own right. :) There has to be some good stories out there. Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Sutterfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 1:53 PM Subject: Re: [UUC] Street vs. Track tires at the track > If you want to scare your instructor at a driving school, show up for > the D group in your E[34]6 M3 with a list of go-fast mods as long as > your arm, on R-compound track tires. For bonus points, say you know > this track from Forza so you won't really be needing much of the > instructor's help, thank you very much. Watch your assigned > instructor suddenly contract pneumonia or malaria or ebola or whatever > it takes to get out of riding with you. > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 16:57:40 -0400 From: "Karl Rentler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "BMW UUC Digest" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Street vs. Track tires at the track Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On 5/2/07, Kirk Lachman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ok, listen up and listen up good. ;-) OK Kirk I listened up good. I agree with you, but once you've figured out how to slide your car on R-comps, using streets for the track SUCKS! Karl 87 325 KP running Hoosiers ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 16:06:43 -0500 From: "Jamie Howton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Kirk Lachman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "BMW UUC Digest" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Street vs. Track tires at the track Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Kirk, I pretty much agree with everything you said. I ran nothing but street tires on the track my first 7 years of DEs. I bought my first set of Hoosiers last year at Mid-Ohio because that's all the Frisby tire guy had on his truck that would fit my M3, (and I was trying to keep up with those S2000s in NASA TTC). I was astonished that they lasted all last year since most of what I heard about them was that they don't last long. I was also astonished at the grip levels that they bring to the table, while I agree that you can have as much fun on street tires on the track and learn a ton more, it's pretty satisfying to be constently faster than all of the cars in the Advanced run group except for a Viper, a Mallett Z06 and Noble M12 in my M Roadster at Road America. That's the difference between street tires and Hoosiers. IMNSHO, no-one should be allowed to run R comps on the track until they have 2-3 years or 30 or so track days under their belt and even that might be too soon. Admittedly Hoosiers are overkill for HPDEs but they sure are fun and in my experience last a decent length of time (17 track days including three weeks ago). ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 16:57:14 -0400 From: Neil Maller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: <E36> M3 tires Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on 5/2/07 3:47 PM, Chet Dawes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Karl, > ">Wear full tread Toyos or Hankooks to track." > > Of course this is a very valid option. This is one of the things I've been > contemplating to try next. But I have other concerns: How long are those > R-comp full tread tires going to remain 'full-tread' on the street? Depends on how frisky you get with the on/off ramps! My M3 is no longer a daily driver and wears full depth Toyo RA-1's as a street, meaning drive to the track and back, tire. Wear is very modest so far. > And with the added heat cycles they'll become useless far faster as > repeated heat cycled R-comp tires gets less and less forgiving with time. A > fact that is substantially reduced with a street tire. I would add to/from > the track, hotel/dinner each night, etc. Not an issue: R compounds used on the street simply don't get hot enough to generate heat cycles, and some, such as the Toyo RA-1's, aren't very sensitive to heat cycling anyhow. > Plus as soon as they wear such that they are no longer a valid wet tire, I'm > into carrying another set anyway. :) > This is only worth it to me if I can drive the 5k miles a year I put on the > car on those tires too. You're a prime candidate to do what I do. Full depth Toyos for the street and for wet track, then another used/shaved set for dry track (carried inside the car). When the street tires eventually get worn they become dry track tires. Rinse, lather and repeat! > I'd be into new Toyo RA1's quite often I'm afraid, > but purhaps I've underestimated the life. Really you have underestimated their street/wet track life. So far the street/wet Toyos are lasting many, many times longer than the others. > Plus the pick-up on the street from r-comp tires would require mud-flaps if > you intended to keep paint on the rockers/wheel arch lips. Nope, again they just don't get that hot on the street. Neil Fort Wayne, IN 96 M3 - Bastard child 03 525iT - Sterling Grey Metallic 05 Mini - Cooper S with LSD ------------------------------ End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(15 messages) **********
