The BMW UUC Digest Volume 3 : Issue 469 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: Lavender Tire Scent Re: <E36> M3 tires Re: <E36> M3 tires Re: <E36> M3 tires Re: <E36> M3 tires New ZF tranny Re: New ZF tranny Re: <E36> M3 tires Re: <E36> M3 tires Re: <E36> M3 tires Re: <E36> M3 tires Re: <E36> M3 tires Re: Tires The next headlight: Re: Tires
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 12:05:56 -0700 From: "Scott & Charlotte Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "UUC Digest" <[email protected]> Subject: Lavender Tire Scent Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> John B asked the other day about buying lavender-scented tires. I'd think twice after seeing this. http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11075-natural-oils-gave-young-boys-breasts.html Didn't someone say the lavendar-scented tires were "girlie"? This proves it. Get the ones with the colored smoke. Scott Miller GGC BMW CCA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 14:13:14 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Jay G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]> Subject: Re: <E36> M3 tires Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> There is a high correlation between wet and dry traction on coarse surfaces with thin water depth. As water gets deep and speeds rise, tread depth, or more exactly, the tread void volume, becomes increasingly important. Gary Derian >i just went ouitside to double check the federal 595 tires, and they have a >treadwear 240, traction AA, and treadwear A rating... > > still crap to me :D > > i always thought that the traction rating was a dry traction rating- > learned it from my high school auto mechanics teacher...thanx for > educating me gary... > > Gary Derian wrote: >> Traction ratings have nothing to do with handling, its a 40 mph wet >> braking test on barely wetted coarse concrete. Any crap tire can get an >> A rating. Some older low rolling resistance tires had a B rating. Those >> are scary in the wet. I've never seen a C rated tire, except for some >> DOT R type tires which weren't tested. Go for an AA rating. >> Gary Derian >> > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 15:33:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Chet Dawes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Karl Rentler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [email protected] Subject: Re: <E36> M3 tires Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Karl, ">Wear full tread Toyos or Hankooks to track." Of course this is a very valid option. This is one of the things I've been contemplating to try next. But I have other concerns: How long are those R-comp full tread tires going to remain 'full-tread' on the street? And with the added heat cycles they'll become useless far faster as repeated heat cycled R-comp tires gets less and less forgiving with time. A fact that is substantially reduced with a street tire. I would add to/from the track, hotel/dinner each night, etc. Plus as soon as they wear such that they are no longer a valid wet tire, I'm into carrying another set anyway. :) This is only worth it to me if I can drive the 5k miles a year I put on the car on those tires too. I'd be into new Toyo RA1's quite often I'm afraid, but purhaps I've underestimated the life. Plus the pick-up on the street from r-comp tires would require mud-flaps if you intended to keep paint on the rockers/wheel arch lips. ">Then why bother with any sort of expensive street tire as you'll get >the benefit from a cheaper street tire..." Two reasons: 1) Because the cheap street tires I've used just plain suck in the wet and are too unpredictable to be safe near their limits. It just is no fun to be on a knife edge tire in the rain going SLOOOOOOW. It is good for you I suppose. Just like push-ups are good for you, but they still suck. :) 2) Because those high-end tires are much safer on the street too. On the track predictable is nice, on the street where conditions change all the time, it is a must. You only care about the last 2/10ths performance when you need it..........and then it is too late. I'd rather spend the $200-300 premium bi-annually for top level street tires. Cheers, Chet Dawes ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 15:46:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Chet Dawes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Tammer Farid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [email protected] Subject: Re: <E36> M3 tires Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Tammer, I think you'd see the same benefit from a high-end (not old/hard XYZ brand) street tire. I've experienced the same thing as you described without r-compound tires. Cold/wet seperates the men from the boys (so-to-speak) in tire technology. Those cheap tires we speak of suck in these situations. Considering my timing/venue and track record as of late ( more than 50% of my track sessions have been raining and/or very cold in the last 2 seasons - bad luck I guess), I'm just not willing to use the junk anymore, despite the cost savings potential. I'm anxious to try out the RA-1. I've heard many good reviews! Who knows, perhaps they will be my next 'utility player' favorite. :) Cheers, Chet -----Original Message----- >From: Tammer Farid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: May 2, 2007 3:26 PM >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [UUC] <E36> M3 tires > >As much as it pains me to agree with Karl <grin> ... > >At Putnam Park last month, 35F and raining with >intermittent sleet, I ran one session on (admittedly old >and hard) street tires. The car was skating all over. >Switched to full-tread RA-1s and the car was transformed; >grip was fine a lap or two in. > >-tammer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 12:44:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Andre Yew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: <E36> M3 tires Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On Wed, 2 May 2007, Chet Dawes wrote: > But I have other concerns: How long are those R-comp full tread tires > going to remain 'full-tread' on the street? Not sure about the street, but on the track, I've seen RA-1s bald in one track day. Obviously, this depends on the track, your car, and your driving style. Here in California, many people drive to and from the tracks on bald RA-1s. --Andre ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 11:22:53 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [email protected] Subject: New ZF tranny Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/070502/20070502006127.html?.v=1 -Kevin ---------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail communication is confidential and is intended only for the individual(s) or entity named above and others who have been specifically authorized to receive it. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, copy, use or disclose the contents of this communication to others. Please notify the sender that you have received this e-mail in error by replying to the e-mail. Please then delete the e-mail and any copies of it. Thank you. ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 12:10:24 -0700 From: Kazuto Okayasu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: New ZF tranny Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 11:22 AM 5/2/2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This really seems like a one-upsmanship race more than actually making real technological strides. CVTs really seem more ideal from an efficiency standpoint (market reluctance to 'rubber-banding' notwithstanding). In theory, can't conventional ATs be designed with an arbitrarily large number of speeds by just stacking more planetary gearsets? ZF 6AT MY02 MB 7G-Tronic MY03 Aisin 8-speed MY07 I mean, really... >http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/070502/20070502006127.html?.v=1 > >-Kevin > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This e-mail communication is confidential and is intended only > for the individual(s) or entity named above and others who have > been specifically authorized to receive it. If you are not the > intended recipient, please do not read, copy, use or disclose > the contents of this communication to others. Please notify the > sender that you have received this e-mail in error by replying > to the e-mail. Please then delete the e-mail and any copies of > it. Thank you. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > >Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > >__________________________________________________________________________ >In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > >UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate >Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! >908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com Kazuto Okayasu Manager, Desktop Support Services Administrative Computing Services, University of California, Irvine [EMAIL PROTECTED] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 14:27:48 -0400 From: "Karl Rentler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: <E36> M3 tires Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On 5/2/07, Andre Yew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 2 May 2007, Karl Rentler wrote: > > If you want a good track tire, buy a track tire. Street tires suck for > > track work... > > It depends on why you go to the track. If it's to warm up for your > upcoming race, then by all means run R compounds. If it's to explore the > envelope of your daily driver to improve your street safety, then your > everyday street tires are the most sensible choice. > > --Andre Well then it doesn't really matter what tires you run. As you can run snows and find the limits at a slower speed. As your experience will directly relate to your street safety... Karl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 11:59:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Andre Yew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: <E36> M3 tires Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On Wed, 2 May 2007, Karl Rentler wrote: > Well then it doesn't really matter what tires you run. As you can run > snows and find the limits at a slower speed. As your experience will > directly relate to your street safety... It only matters to the extent that what you run on the track matches what you run on the street. I like to have as much usable traction on the street as possible, balanced against wear life and cost, and the PS2s strike the right balance for me. --Andre ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 14:36:05 -0400 From: "Karl Rentler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: <E36> M3 tires Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On 5/2/07, Chet Dawes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Karl, > I agree, but at the same time it is not always a clear distinction: > > 1) I don't trailer my car to the track at this point, therefore I can cram > only 5 extra tires/wheels and all my tools into the car and head off. I sort > of like it this way as often the drive to/from the track with a group of > friends is much fun. Wear full tread Toyos or Hankooks to track. > 2) I don't 'race' the car (DE's only thus far) and therefore I'm not always > after the optimal lap time but instead work on learning the > car/track/set-up/having fun and street tires are more forgiving and > predictable at the sacrifice of lap times. Then why bother with any sort of expensive street tire as you'll get the benefit from a cheaper street tire... > 3) My dedicated track tires are a premium to me and I try to make them last. > Thus I don't give them any more heat cycles than necessary. So often my > first and last sessions of a DE are run on street tires. A good way to > warm-up/cool-down and work on skills. Not to mention sometimes there are > just too many things to do before my first session to worry about changing > tires. Besides at Mid-Ohio in the spring and Grattan in the fall as my > annual first/last events get awefully cold in the mornings and a cold street > tire is better than a cold track tire! For approximately 3 corners... Once the R-comps have heat in them they are far superior to street tires no matter the temp. > 4) When it rains or is drying-out I run street tires on the track. I don't > carry R-compound wets as I don't have the budget or room to carry them with > me. But I don't bag it and go home either, I run rain or shine. That's why you use full tread R-comps. > 5) The 'right' street tire does not suck as bad as it would seem for track > work. They won't last as long as a track tire and certainly won't decrease > lap times, but you can learn a lot and they can far exceed a 'track tire' if > it is wet out. Umm, I'll beg to differ. Unless its monsooning. See full tread R-comps. Karl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 12:26:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Tammer Farid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: <E36> M3 tires Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> As much as it pains me to agree with Karl <grin> ... At Putnam Park last month, 35F and raining with intermittent sleet, I ran one session on (admittedly old and hard) street tires. The car was skating all over. Switched to full-tread RA-1s and the car was transformed; grip was fine a lap or two in. -tammer --- Karl Rentler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 5/2/07, Chet Dawes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Karl, > > I agree, but at the same time it is not always a clear > distinction: > > > > 1) I don't trailer my car to the track at this point, > therefore I can cram only 5 extra tires/wheels and all my > tools into the car and head off. I sort of like it this > way as often the drive to/from the track with a group of > friends is much fun. > > Wear full tread Toyos or Hankooks to track. > > > 2) I don't 'race' the car (DE's only thus far) and > therefore I'm not always after the optimal lap time but > instead work on learning the car/track/set-up/having fun > and street tires are more forgiving and predictable at > the sacrifice of lap times. > > Then why bother with any sort of expensive street tire as > you'll get > the benefit from a cheaper street tire... > > > 3) My dedicated track tires are a premium to me and I > try to make them last. Thus I don't give them any more > heat cycles than necessary. So often my first and last > sessions of a DE are run on street tires. A good way to > warm-up/cool-down and work on skills. Not to mention > sometimes there are just too many things to do before my > first session to worry about changing tires. Besides at > Mid-Ohio in the spring and Grattan in the fall as my > annual first/last events get awefully cold in the > mornings and a cold street tire is better than a cold > track tire! > > > For approximately 3 corners... Once the R-comps have heat > in them they > are far superior to street tires no matter the temp. > > > 4) When it rains or is drying-out I run street tires on > the track. I don't carry R-compound wets as I don't have > the budget or room to carry them with me. But I don't > bag it and go home either, I run rain or shine. > > That's why you use full tread R-comps. > > > 5) The 'right' street tire does not suck as bad as it > would seem for track work. They won't last as long as a > track tire and certainly won't decrease lap times, but > you can learn a lot and they can far exceed a 'track > tire' if it is wet out. > > Umm, I'll beg to differ. Unless its monsooning. See full > tread R-comps. > > > Karl > Search the > ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder > of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of > the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 14:47:57 -0500 From: "Jamie Howton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Tammer Farid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: <E36> M3 tires Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > At Putnam Park last month, 35F and raining with > intermittent sleet, I ran one session on (admittedly old > and hard) street tires. The car was skating all over. > Switched to full-tread RA-1s and the car was transformed; > grip was fine a lap or two in. I can report the same results at Road America three weeks ago. At ~40F ambient temps, my heat cycled to death Hoosier R6s (15 track days) were MUCH faster than the Conti-Sport Contacts that were stock on my M Roadster. The Hooisers were good for ~10 seconds per lap and they only took a lap to get some heat in them but even cold they were as good as the Contis. Regards Jamie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 14:37:16 -0400 From: "Fuerst Chris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Tires Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I've run up to 50 psi on street tires before trying to burn up the center tread and never had any problems except as GD mentioned a real harsh ride. YMMV 1st -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Bader Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 12:51 PM To: [email protected] Cc: 'kjk' Subject: Re: [UUC] Tires How much higher can you safely go, and what is the benefit (for street use only) if any? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 10:52:37 -0800 From: bbarry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "[uucdigest]" <[email protected]>, bmw digest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: The next headlight: Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> the next headlight: http://www.manufacturingcenter.com/dfx/news/stories/feature-5.asp Barry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 12:24:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Tammer Farid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Tires Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Interesting, thanks. -t --- Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > No, cold. A 44 psi tire can be inflated to 44 psi cold. > Radial tire belts > are stiffer than the sidewalls, so high pressure does not > push out the > center of the tread and increase the wear rate. It > reduces the wear rate of > the shoulders due to reduced squirm in corners. > Gary Derian > > > > That's hot though, right? In other words a max > pressure 44 > > p.s.i. tire shouldn't be run at 44 p.s.i. cold. Also, > at > > significantly higher pressures you tend to wear the > center > > portion of the tread faster than the edges. For my > street > > tires I just use whatever pressure gives me good > handling, > > good gas mileage, and even wear (or as close as > possible > > with the neg. camber I run) ... generally around 35-36 > psi > > all around on the E28 and the E36. > > > > -tammer > > > > --- Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> You can safely go as high as the pressure branded on > the > >> tire. The benefit > >> is less tire squirm, less rolling resistance, better > rim > >> protection and a > >> harsher ride. > >> > >> Factory inflation recommendations are for fully loaded > >> vehicles, and towards > >> understeer. > >> > >> Gary Derian > >> > >> >I have seen posts about people running higher > pressures > >> on their tires. I > >> > run my street tires (conti sport contact) at the > basic > >> > manufacture-recommended pressures of 30/35 I believe > it > >> is. How much > >> > higher > >> > can you safely go, and what is the benefit (for > street > >> use only) if any? > >> > > >> > Matt Bader > >> > 98 M3/4 > >> > Delaware > >> > >> Search the > >> > > > ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > >> > >> > >> > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > >> In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, > founder > >> of the BMW CCA. > >> > >> UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home > of > >> the Ultimate > >> Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > >> 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > >> > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > Search the > ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, > founder of the BMW CCA. > > > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home > of the Ultimate > > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > > Search the > ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder > of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of > the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! 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