Yeah, it's a huge socket. You do have to be sure you're not tweaking all the attached tubing, so if it doesn't come easy I'd stop and disasssemble.
I have used citric and it works, but like you said takes a long time to clear it. I now have durgol, and am looking at ways to easily detach my water line and draw that into the boilers instead. Maybe an inline valve and a QD or something. b Sent from my apple IIe > On Dec 4, 2015, at 11:19, herman dickens <[email protected]> wrote: > > I have a shop that we use to service our trucks so I have access to an impact > wrench. That sounds like a much easier solution than taking it all apart. > I've descaled mine twice and found very little scale thankfully. It does take > a while to get all of the citric acid out though. > >> On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 1:34 PM, Benjamin McCafferty <[email protected]> wrote: >> Thanks Herman! I hear you, hard to argue with a functioning machine. To do >> the solenoid, I have to pull tubing off the old one, etc. which almost >> certainly involves pulling boilers, etc. But I'll look and see if I can >> access through the bottom. >> >> If you can hold the boiler steady, you can exchange heating elements through >> the bottom of the machine with an impact hammer. But probably worth it to >> disassemble and descale at the same time. I found it surprisingly easier >> than I'd hoped, but still a pretty big undertaking. I'm an experienced >> wrench too though... >> >> b >> >> Sent from my apple IIe >> >>> On Dec 4, 2015, at 09:36, herman dickens <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Glad you got it going again! I still haven't installed my pid. It's hard to >>> work on it when everything is working fine. I dread having to replace the >>> heating elements and I still have the original ones in it. >>> >>>> On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 12:23 PM, Benjamin McCafferty <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> Hey all! >>>> >>>> I ordered a bunch of parts and am getting there. As someone mentioned, it >>>> would seem I have two problems. >>>> >>>> I replaced the PID display yesterday, and the machine heated properly and >>>> the PID display numbers are bright and clear. So that part was clearly >>>> failed. >>>> >>>> I still have some chatter, which I now know is definitely solenoid, so >>>> I'll bet on that being the cause (it's original, eight years old) as >>>> opposed to the new Giemme controller from this summer. Man do I ever NOT >>>> want to tear down the machine again. But the good news is that I don't >>>> have to do it immediately, the machine is working and i just need to >>>> switch it off if the chatter starts and then it resets. >>>> >>>> Will keep you posted, and thanks as always for the help and insights. >>>> >>>> best, >>>> bmc >>>> >>>> Sent from my apple IIe >>>> >>>>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 15:11, Ben McCafferty <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Got it, thanks! >>>>> b >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 14:32, herman dickens <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> You should have it. Good luck. >>>>>> h >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 5:09 PM, Ben McCafferty <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Yes, thanks! >>>>>>> bmc >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 13:45, herman dickens <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I can email it if you'd like. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 4:34 PM, Benjamin McCafferty >>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Sure, thanks. I probably have mine somewhere, but…. :) >>>>>>>>> bmc >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 1:33 PM, herman dickens >>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I've got a new pid unit in the box that just came in wed from wll >>>>>>>>>> and it has an instruction sheet in it that might help. let me know >>>>>>>>>> if you need it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 4:28 PM, Benjamin McCafferty >>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Herman, I think I have that and will look. I agree, find >>>>>>>>>>> where the voltage is missing, but I’m not sure what is “normal” for >>>>>>>>>>> the solid state relay, etc. Definitely have 120 there, and also at >>>>>>>>>>> some of the PID display unit. Need to see where it’s *supposed* to >>>>>>>>>>> be going but isn’t, if that makes sense. >>>>>>>>>>> b >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 1:13 PM, herman dickens >>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> just find out where the voltage is dropping. If you have 114 >>>>>>>>>>>> coming out of the pressurestat at both point you know it's not >>>>>>>>>>>> that. That takes care of half the machine. there's a wiring >>>>>>>>>>>> diagram on the brewtus compendium, I found it after I posted, and >>>>>>>>>>>> it shows how everything is routed. If you don't have a copy I can >>>>>>>>>>>> email one to you. >>>>>>>>>>>> Herman >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 4:09 PM, Benjamin McCafferty >>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> OK--making some progress. I was looking at it backwards. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The com/1 wire comes FROM the giemme as you said, Herman--so >>>>>>>>>>>>> there is 114V at the giemme, and 114V at the com/1 on the pstat. >>>>>>>>>>>>> So that part is OK. I had the pstat backwards in my mind--so as >>>>>>>>>>>>> would be expected, the normally closed/2 terminal on the pstat >>>>>>>>>>>>> has 114V when steam is heating, so that part of the pstat is ok. >>>>>>>>>>>>> That red wire goes to the high-limit on the steam boiler, and >>>>>>>>>>>>> then on to the steam element. The far side of the steam high >>>>>>>>>>>>> limit has 114V also, so that part is also OK. Since the steam >>>>>>>>>>>>> boiler heats, I'll call that empirical evidence that the steam >>>>>>>>>>>>> element is fine (albeit somewhat slow). >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> When the steam boiler light turns off, the voltage at NC/2 drops >>>>>>>>>>>>> to 0, as expected, and voltage at 4/NO jumps to 114V. The wire >>>>>>>>>>>>> from 4/NO goes to the solid state relay 1/L1, and when the steam >>>>>>>>>>>>> boiler shuts off, 1/L1 goes to 118V (assume I'm just seeing >>>>>>>>>>>>> fluctuation in line voltage--readings have varied from 113-119V >>>>>>>>>>>>> throughout). >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On the relay, 2/T1 is at 0V, and 3/A1 and 4/A2 are at 118V. The >>>>>>>>>>>>> PID display is flickering and dimming now independent of the >>>>>>>>>>>>> steam boiler's operation. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2/T1 is the wire that goes to the high-limit on the brew boiler, >>>>>>>>>>>>> and then on to the brew element. So I think Todd's previous >>>>>>>>>>>>> email to me is correct, that we're looking at either PID or >>>>>>>>>>>>> solid-state relay. At least I've now traced 120V all the way >>>>>>>>>>>>> from the giemme to the relay; from there I'll have to see if >>>>>>>>>>>>> there is a way to diagnose each part independently. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Still doesn't explain the chatter of the solenoid, unless that >>>>>>>>>>>>> power comes from the relay or PID, and then if the PID was >>>>>>>>>>>>> failing it could be sending bogus voltage, i.e. interrupted or >>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever. But there is a terminal on the giemme for "bomba" >>>>>>>>>>>>> (pump) and so I've always thought that the pump's power came from >>>>>>>>>>>>> the giemme. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Closer, but still puzzling a bit. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> b >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my apple IIe >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 12:15, herman dickens >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that the pstat gets line voltage from the controller and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> then sends it to the steam or brew boiler from there. I think >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's a white wire and the voltage there should be 120. it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> should also output the same voltage to either the brew or steam >>>>>>>>>>>>>> boiler depending on which is calling for it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 3:07 PM, Benjamin McCafferty >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So riddle me this, Batman--does power come FROM the solid state >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> relay, TO the p-stat--or the other way around? If the former, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then seems the relay is the culprit since the PID probably >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't handle line voltage to the boiler, right? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll see if I can check input to the relay. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> b >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my apple IIe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 12:04, Benjamin McCafferty >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At the rocker switch is 112.9. At the outer two terminals of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the PID with the negative held to a ground bolt on the case is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 113.2. Center two terminals of the PID are 4 or less. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good thought on the ground, I'll check. That was the culprit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on old BMW motorcycles more times than not... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> b >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my apple IIe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 11:55, herman dickens >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You could have a loose wire, but I doubt it. What's the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> voltage going into the pid? You could also have a bad ground. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've had that happen on other things and it causes the power >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be all over the place. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Benjamin McCafferty >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, update. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When I turn on the machine, I put a voltmeter across the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pstat terminals. While the steam boiler was heating, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> terminals 1/com and 4/no show 60 volts. 1 and 2 of course >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> show nothing. If I reverse wires 2/nc and 4/no, then cross >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pstat terminals 1 and 4, I get 120V. Switching them back to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their normal configuration, once the steam boiler is heated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and switched off, crossing 1 and 2 shows 120V. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now this is interesting. I had suggested to Todd that the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flickering of the PID and the machine-gun thing make me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing of an under-current situation, i.e. not enough power >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to make the relay fire crisply and all the way. I have also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> notice lately (though it didn't occur to me as to why), that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my steam boiler is being outrun when I steam milk. Lastly, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it took forever for the vacuum breaker to seal shut just >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now; and it makes sense since the steam element is only >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> getting 60V. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So now the question becomes, why is reduced voltage >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happening on this one wire? It goes to the solid state >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> relay on terminal 1/L1. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> b >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my apple IIe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 11:24, Benjamin McCafferty >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Likewise. It did occur to me that the pstat relies on a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flexible rubber diaphragm; perhaps that has hardened over >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time as it sat on a shelf for three years. Pinging Chris >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> again; also, he had offered 20%, not 10%, my mistake. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Talk soon, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bmc >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my apple IIe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 11:17, herman dickens >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It seems like mine was around that date too. The second >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new one says 4/15. They could have had a bad run of pstats >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or it could just be bad luck. My last pstat lasted almost >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8 years. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 2:11 PM, Benjamin McCafferty >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Herman. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pstat looks like mfg date of 6/12; shouldn't matter but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there you go. Chris will give 10% discount on a new one, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but still chaps my butt. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll try to pull the giemme cover and watch the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> relay--don't try this at home, kids! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I instinctively don't think the PID or element is bad, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but will try the p-stat reversal thing and see where that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> takes me. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll post again in a bit. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> b >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my apple IIe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 11:07, herman dickens >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben fwiw it sounds like you have 2 problems. I had the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same problem with a pstat and it only lasted 2 months. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The next one worked fine. There should be a mfg date on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the pstat. It seems like my first one was several years >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> old and the second one was this year. I was having the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same symptoms with the relief valve but no chatter. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chatter sounds like a relay or a solenoid. Can you pull >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the cover off and look at the relay while the chattering >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is going on? That might help narrow things down. You >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could have a bad pid or element in the brew boiler >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> causing that not to get up to temp but honestly I don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work on these things enough to do anything but guess. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just bought the pid upgrade for my machine but I may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hold off on installing it for a few more days. Maybe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Todd will jump in and give you some ideas. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Herman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 1:57 PM, Benjamin McCafferty >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey all! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hope you all had a great thanksgiving and that you're >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all waking from your food comas. I had more pie for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> breakfast, but alas, with no espresso. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will be talking to Todd soon about this, but thought >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd also ping the collective and see if anyone has any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ideas. Unfortunately, I have a collection of symptoms >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at this point that I can't make fit a common cause; >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> perhaps they will make sense to one of you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As you may recall, I had quite a bit of trouble this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> summer, and during that process I replaced: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --Both hi-limit switches >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --One or both boiler elements >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --Giemme controller board with the updated one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --PID temp probe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --Main power switch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --New Jaeger pressure-stat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, as with this summer's shenanigans, my mom is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visiting in two weeks, and dearly loves a good latte. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I spent several hundred on overnight charges, parts, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc. while she was here in the summer, and managed 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> days of lattes for her in her three-week visit. Hoping >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to get the machine back in action fast! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At the same time I did all that work, I totally >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disassembled everything, descaled completely, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cleaned the solenoid until it was shiny, i.e. all scale >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> removed, etc. The solenoid functioned fine with power. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The machine worked normally from summer until this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> week, but with one weird symptom. It would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> occasionally make a machine-gun noise, i.e. something >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mechanical opening and closing very rapidly, 5-10 times >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> per second maybe. To me, it is a higher pitched sound >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than the solenoid, and sounds like it originates from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the area of the giemme controller. Todd suspected the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solenoid might be sticking; I was thinking perhaps one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the two relays in the giemme controller was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> misfiring (not sure that they are even relays--but I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> referring to the two small sets of contacts in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> giemme that look like points from a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> points-and-condensor ignition). At its worst, this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symptom would continue for 10+ seconds and I'd shut the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machine off and back on; it would seem to "reset" and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stop. At its best, it would last for a few seconds and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stop on its own. It clearly is related to when the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machine goes to refill the steam boiler, i.e. when >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> closing the steam wand, dumping hot water boiler, etc. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is when this would happen, very intermittently. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As of a week ago, the machine-gun thing got really bad, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i.e. it happens 4-5 times while steaming enough milk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a latte, etc. When shutting off the steam wand, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when it goes to refill, the machine-gun noise happens >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every time and frequently does not stop. As the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machine sits at idle and occasionally refills the steam >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> boiler, it also makes the noise every time. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At this point, it would seem to me that the culprit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would be the giemme or the solenoid, but wait, there's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A few other symptoms have happened in the past week, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which really confuse the issue for me, because I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> admittedly don't know exactly how electricity flows >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through the machine: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --The Jaeger P-stat has allowed the machine to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over-pressure about 3 times in 5 months, causing the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blowoff to activate. No way this should be happening >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with a new p-stat, but otherwise it has been normal. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As an aside, Chris Coffee will not warrant the p-stat, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stating 30 days is the warranty from that manufacturer. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So I have a 90-day-old failing part that won't be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> covered. Unexpected. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --The PID display (which I have set to 204F) has stayed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at 105F for several hours each morning for about four >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> days in a row, and then later in the day, has heated to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 204F. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --As of two days ago, the PID heated the brew boiler to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 105F and stayed there all day, never heating to 204F. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --Earlier this week, one day only, the PID display was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blank when the machine was on. It remained blank for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about an hour, then suddenly lit up. It showed 105F. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Every time the steam boiler fired, the PID screen would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flicker and get really dim, almost not visible. Then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it would brighten right back up when the steam boiler >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned off. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --Most of the time (and this is an old thing, maybe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> normal), the PID numbers and "dot" will blink every few >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seconds, i.e. they go off for a split second, and then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> come back on. The dot at this point will not stay on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for more than a split second also, i.e. it never shows >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the boiler calling for heat once the steam boiler is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --The same day the PID display was blank and dim, there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was a single time where the steam boiler filled, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then shut off (solenoid clicked), but the pump kept >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> running indefinitely. I finally had to turn off the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machine to make it stop. After power cycling the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machine, the pump filled and stopped normally again. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --At this time, the steam boiler fills and heats >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> normally, with the exception of the machine-gun noise, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which happens almost every time. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK--I think that's it. I'm sorry if someone has told >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me this before, but I'm trying to understand first how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> electricity travels in the machine. So far, the only >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing that seems like a common point to all of these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symptoms is the giemme controller, but that's based on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my limited understanding. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How I *think* it works is this: main power switch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sends current to the giemme, which sends current to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pump and to the pressure stat (via the two "relays" in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the giemme?). If the steam boiler is not up to temp, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the p-stat sends current to it until it is at pressure, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then it sends current onward to the PID. The PID sends >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that onwards in bursts via its solid-state relay to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heat the brew boiler. Meanwhile, the giemme sends >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current to the pump (via a relay?) and to the solenoid, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so the solenoid closes, diverting water to the steam >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> boiler, and the steam boiler fills. When water touches >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the probe in the steam boiler, it essentially shorts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out and stops the pump, and the solenoid opens, sending >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> water line pressure to the brew boiler, which is held >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> back by the group. When the lever is lifted, the lever >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mechanically opens the group to let water through, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the switch behind the lever sends power to the pump to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cause it to run and push water under pressure through >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the group. If, while pulling a shot, the steam boiler >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level drops below its probe, the solenoid closes and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interrupts water to the brew boiler/group until the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> steam boiler is filled again. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does that sound about right? Again, I would really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like to understand this whole circuit, especially the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> giemme controller and what the two mechanical contacts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are for on that board. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --Also, my PID is about 5-6 years old by now; what is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the expected service life of those? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --Can I safely test the PID by reversing NO/NC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> terminals on the P-stat? Wouldn't that have the effect >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of prioritizing the PID first? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, I'll stop. Enjoy your leftovers, and have a good >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> coffee for me! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben McC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my apple IIe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Google Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emails from it, send an email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You 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this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send 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it, >>>>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>>> Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>> Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "Brewtus" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to [email protected]. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "Brewtus" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Brewtus" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Brewtus" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Brewtus" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Brewtus" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
