Yeah time like that the tank and vibe pump work better. How much difference did you notice with the pid?
On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 2:36 PM, Benjamin McCafferty <[email protected]> wrote: > Yeah, it's a huge socket. You do have to be sure you're not tweaking all > the attached tubing, so if it doesn't come easy I'd stop and disasssemble. > > I have used citric and it works, but like you said takes a long time to > clear it. I now have durgol, and am looking at ways to easily detach my > water line and draw that into the boilers instead. Maybe an inline valve > and a QD or something. > > b > > Sent from my apple IIe > > On Dec 4, 2015, at 11:19, herman dickens <[email protected]> wrote: > > I have a shop that we use to service our trucks so I have access to an > impact wrench. That sounds like a much easier solution than taking it all > apart. I've descaled mine twice and found very little scale thankfully. It > does take a while to get all of the citric acid out though. > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 1:34 PM, Benjamin McCafferty <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Thanks Herman! I hear you, hard to argue with a functioning machine. To >> do the solenoid, I have to pull tubing off the old one, etc. which almost >> certainly involves pulling boilers, etc. But I'll look and see if I can >> access through the bottom. >> >> If you can hold the boiler steady, you can exchange heating elements >> through the bottom of the machine with an impact hammer. But probably >> worth it to disassemble and descale at the same time. I found it >> surprisingly easier than I'd hoped, but still a pretty big undertaking. >> I'm an experienced wrench too though... >> >> b >> >> Sent from my apple IIe >> >> On Dec 4, 2015, at 09:36, herman dickens <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Glad you got it going again! I still haven't installed my pid. It's hard >> to work on it when everything is working fine. I dread having to replace >> the heating elements and I still have the original ones in it. >> >> On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 12:23 PM, Benjamin McCafferty <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Hey all! >>> >>> I ordered a bunch of parts and am getting there. As someone mentioned, >>> it would seem I have two problems. >>> >>> I replaced the PID display yesterday, and the machine heated properly >>> and the PID display numbers are bright and clear. So that part was clearly >>> failed. >>> >>> I still have some chatter, which I now know is definitely solenoid, so >>> I'll bet on that being the cause (it's original, eight years old) as >>> opposed to the new Giemme controller from this summer. Man do I ever NOT >>> want to tear down the machine again. But the good news is that I don't >>> have to do it immediately, the machine is working and i just need to switch >>> it off if the chatter starts and then it resets. >>> >>> Will keep you posted, and thanks as always for the help and insights. >>> >>> best, >>> bmc >>> >>> Sent from my apple IIe >>> >>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 15:11, Ben McCafferty <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Got it, thanks! >>> b >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 14:32, herman dickens <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> You should have it. Good luck. >>> h >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 5:09 PM, Ben McCafferty <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Yes, thanks! >>>> bmc >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 13:45, herman dickens <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I can email it if you'd like. >>>> >>>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 4:34 PM, Benjamin McCafferty <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Sure, thanks. I probably have mine somewhere, but…. :) >>>>> bmc >>>>> >>>>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 1:33 PM, herman dickens <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I've got a new pid unit in the box that just came in wed from wll and >>>>> it has an instruction sheet in it that might help. let me know if you need >>>>> it. >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 4:28 PM, Benjamin McCafferty <[email protected] >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thanks Herman, I think I have that and will look. I agree, find >>>>>> where the voltage is missing, but I’m not sure what is “normal” for the >>>>>> solid state relay, etc. Definitely have 120 there, and also at some of >>>>>> the >>>>>> PID display unit. Need to see where it’s *supposed* to be going but >>>>>> isn’t, >>>>>> if that makes sense. >>>>>> b >>>>>> >>>>>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 1:13 PM, herman dickens <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> just find out where the voltage is dropping. If you have 114 coming >>>>>> out of the pressurestat at both point you know it's not that. That takes >>>>>> care of half the machine. there's a wiring diagram on the brewtus >>>>>> compendium, I found it after I posted, and it shows how everything is >>>>>> routed. If you don't have a copy I can email one to you. >>>>>> Herman >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 4:09 PM, Benjamin McCafferty < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> OK--making some progress. I was looking at it backwards. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The com/1 wire comes FROM the giemme as you said, Herman--so there >>>>>>> is 114V at the giemme, and 114V at the com/1 on the pstat. So that >>>>>>> part is >>>>>>> OK. I had the pstat backwards in my mind--so as would be expected, the >>>>>>> normally closed/2 terminal on the pstat has 114V when steam is heating, >>>>>>> so >>>>>>> that part of the pstat is ok. That red wire goes to the high-limit on >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> steam boiler, and then on to the steam element. The far side of the >>>>>>> steam >>>>>>> high limit has 114V also, so that part is also OK. Since the steam >>>>>>> boiler >>>>>>> heats, I'll call that empirical evidence that the steam element is fine >>>>>>> (albeit somewhat slow). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When the steam boiler light turns off, the voltage at NC/2 drops to >>>>>>> 0, as expected, and voltage at 4/NO jumps to 114V. The wire from 4/NO >>>>>>> goes >>>>>>> to the solid state relay 1/L1, and when the steam boiler shuts off, 1/L1 >>>>>>> goes to 118V (assume I'm just seeing fluctuation in line >>>>>>> voltage--readings >>>>>>> have varied from 113-119V throughout). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On the relay, 2/T1 is at 0V, and 3/A1 and 4/A2 are at 118V. The PID >>>>>>> display is flickering and dimming now independent of the steam boiler's >>>>>>> operation. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2/T1 is the wire that goes to the high-limit on the brew boiler, and >>>>>>> then on to the brew element. So I think Todd's previous email to me is >>>>>>> correct, that we're looking at either PID or solid-state relay. At >>>>>>> least >>>>>>> I've now traced 120V all the way from the giemme to the relay; from >>>>>>> there >>>>>>> I'll have to see if there is a way to diagnose each part independently. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Still doesn't explain the chatter of the solenoid, unless that power >>>>>>> comes from the relay or PID, and then if the PID was failing it could be >>>>>>> sending bogus voltage, i.e. interrupted or whatever. But there is a >>>>>>> terminal on the giemme for "bomba" (pump) and so I've always thought >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> the pump's power came from the giemme. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Closer, but still puzzling a bit. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> b >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sent from my apple IIe >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 12:15, herman dickens <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think that the pstat gets line voltage from the controller and >>>>>>> then sends it to the steam or brew boiler from there. I think it's a >>>>>>> white >>>>>>> wire and the voltage there should be 120. it should also output the >>>>>>> same >>>>>>> voltage to either the brew or steam boiler depending on which is calling >>>>>>> for it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 3:07 PM, Benjamin McCafferty < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So riddle me this, Batman--does power come FROM the solid state >>>>>>>> relay, TO the p-stat--or the other way around? If the former, then >>>>>>>> seems >>>>>>>> the relay is the culprit since the PID probably doesn't handle line >>>>>>>> voltage >>>>>>>> to the boiler, right? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'll see if I can check input to the relay. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> b >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my apple IIe >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 12:04, Benjamin McCafferty <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> At the rocker switch is 112.9. At the outer two terminals of the >>>>>>>> PID with the negative held to a ground bolt on the case is 113.2. >>>>>>>> Center >>>>>>>> two terminals of the PID are 4 or less. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Good thought on the ground, I'll check. That was the culprit on >>>>>>>> old BMW motorcycles more times than not... >>>>>>>> b >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my apple IIe >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 11:55, herman dickens <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You could have a loose wire, but I doubt it. What's the voltage >>>>>>>> going into the pid? You could also have a bad ground. I've had that >>>>>>>> happen >>>>>>>> on other things and it causes the power to be all over the place. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Benjamin McCafferty < >>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> OK, update. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> When I turn on the machine, I put a voltmeter across the pstat >>>>>>>>> terminals. While the steam boiler was heating, terminals 1/com and >>>>>>>>> 4/no >>>>>>>>> show 60 volts. 1 and 2 of course show nothing. If I reverse wires >>>>>>>>> 2/nc >>>>>>>>> and 4/no, then cross pstat terminals 1 and 4, I get 120V. Switching >>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>> back to their normal configuration, once the steam boiler is heated >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> switched off, crossing 1 and 2 shows 120V. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Now this is interesting. I had suggested to Todd that the >>>>>>>>> flickering of the PID and the machine-gun thing make me thing of an >>>>>>>>> under-current situation, i.e. not enough power to make the relay fire >>>>>>>>> crisply and all the way. I have also notice lately (though it didn't >>>>>>>>> occur >>>>>>>>> to me as to why), that my steam boiler is being outrun when I steam >>>>>>>>> milk. >>>>>>>>> Lastly, it took forever for the vacuum breaker to seal shut just now; >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> it makes sense since the steam element is only getting 60V. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So now the question becomes, why is reduced voltage happening on >>>>>>>>> this one wire? It goes to the solid state relay on terminal 1/L1. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> b >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sent from my apple IIe >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 11:24, Benjamin McCafferty <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Likewise. It did occur to me that the pstat relies on a flexible >>>>>>>>> rubber diaphragm; perhaps that has hardened over time as it sat on a >>>>>>>>> shelf >>>>>>>>> for three years. Pinging Chris again; also, he had offered 20%, not >>>>>>>>> 10%, >>>>>>>>> my mistake. >>>>>>>>> Talk soon, >>>>>>>>> bmc >>>>>>>>> Sent from my apple IIe >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 11:17, herman dickens <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It seems like mine was around that date too. The second new one >>>>>>>>> says 4/15. They could have had a bad run of pstats or it could just >>>>>>>>> be bad >>>>>>>>> luck. My last pstat lasted almost 8 years. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 2:11 PM, Benjamin McCafferty < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks Herman. >>>>>>>>>> Pstat looks like mfg date of 6/12; shouldn't matter but there you >>>>>>>>>> go. Chris will give 10% discount on a new one, but still chaps my >>>>>>>>>> butt. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'll try to pull the giemme cover and watch the relay--don't try >>>>>>>>>> this at home, kids! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I instinctively don't think the PID or element is bad, but will >>>>>>>>>> try the p-stat reversal thing and see where that takes me. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'll post again in a bit. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> b >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from my apple IIe >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 11:07, herman dickens < >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ben fwiw it sounds like you have 2 problems. I had the same >>>>>>>>>> problem with a pstat and it only lasted 2 months. The next one >>>>>>>>>> worked fine. >>>>>>>>>> There should be a mfg date on the pstat. It seems like my first one >>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>> several years old and the second one was this year. I was having the >>>>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>>>> symptoms with the relief valve but no chatter. The chatter sounds >>>>>>>>>> like a >>>>>>>>>> relay or a solenoid. Can you pull the cover off and look at the >>>>>>>>>> relay while >>>>>>>>>> the chattering is going on? That might help narrow things down. You >>>>>>>>>> could >>>>>>>>>> have a bad pid or element in the brew boiler causing that not to get >>>>>>>>>> up to >>>>>>>>>> temp but honestly I don't work on these things enough to do anything >>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>> guess. I just bought the pid upgrade for my machine but I may hold >>>>>>>>>> off on >>>>>>>>>> installing it for a few more days. Maybe Todd will jump in and give >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> some ideas. >>>>>>>>>> Herman >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 1:57 PM, Benjamin McCafferty < >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hey all! >>>>>>>>>>> Hope you all had a great thanksgiving and that you're all waking >>>>>>>>>>> from your food comas. I had more pie for breakfast, but alas, with >>>>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>>>> espresso. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I will be talking to Todd soon about this, but thought I'd also >>>>>>>>>>> ping the collective and see if anyone has any ideas. >>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, I have >>>>>>>>>>> a collection of symptoms at this point that I can't make fit a >>>>>>>>>>> common >>>>>>>>>>> cause; perhaps they will make sense to one of you. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> As you may recall, I had quite a bit of trouble this summer, and >>>>>>>>>>> during that process I replaced: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --Both hi-limit switches >>>>>>>>>>> --One or both boiler elements >>>>>>>>>>> --Giemme controller board with the updated one >>>>>>>>>>> --PID temp probe >>>>>>>>>>> --Main power switch >>>>>>>>>>> --New Jaeger pressure-stat >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Also, as with this summer's shenanigans, my mom is visiting in >>>>>>>>>>> two weeks, and dearly loves a good latte. I spent several hundred >>>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>>> overnight charges, parts, etc. while she was here in the summer, and >>>>>>>>>>> managed 2 days of lattes for her in her three-week visit. Hoping >>>>>>>>>>> to get >>>>>>>>>>> the machine back in action fast! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> At the same time I did all that work, I totally disassembled >>>>>>>>>>> everything, descaled completely, and cleaned the solenoid until it >>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>> shiny, i.e. all scale removed, etc. The solenoid functioned fine >>>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>> power. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The machine worked normally from summer until this week, but >>>>>>>>>>> with one weird symptom. It would occasionally make a machine-gun >>>>>>>>>>> noise, >>>>>>>>>>> i.e. something mechanical opening and closing very rapidly, 5-10 >>>>>>>>>>> times per >>>>>>>>>>> second maybe. To me, it is a higher pitched sound than the >>>>>>>>>>> solenoid, and >>>>>>>>>>> sounds like it originates from the area of the giemme controller. >>>>>>>>>>> Todd >>>>>>>>>>> suspected the solenoid might be sticking; I was thinking perhaps >>>>>>>>>>> one of the >>>>>>>>>>> two relays in the giemme controller was misfiring (not sure that >>>>>>>>>>> they are >>>>>>>>>>> even relays--but I'm referring to the two small sets of contacts in >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> giemme that look like points from a points-and-condensor ignition). >>>>>>>>>>> At its >>>>>>>>>>> worst, this symptom would continue for 10+ seconds and I'd shut the >>>>>>>>>>> machine >>>>>>>>>>> off and back on; it would seem to "reset" and stop. At its best, >>>>>>>>>>> it would >>>>>>>>>>> last for a few seconds and stop on its own. It clearly is related >>>>>>>>>>> to when >>>>>>>>>>> the machine goes to refill the steam boiler, i.e. when closing the >>>>>>>>>>> steam >>>>>>>>>>> wand, dumping hot water boiler, etc. is when this would happen, very >>>>>>>>>>> intermittently. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> As of a week ago, the machine-gun thing got really bad, i.e. it >>>>>>>>>>> happens 4-5 times while steaming enough milk for a latte, etc. When >>>>>>>>>>> shutting off the steam wand, when it goes to refill, the >>>>>>>>>>> machine-gun noise >>>>>>>>>>> happens every time and frequently does not stop. As the machine >>>>>>>>>>> sits at >>>>>>>>>>> idle and occasionally refills the steam boiler, it also makes the >>>>>>>>>>> noise >>>>>>>>>>> every time. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> At this point, it would seem to me that the culprit would be the >>>>>>>>>>> giemme or the solenoid, but wait, there's more... >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> A few other symptoms have happened in the past week, which >>>>>>>>>>> really confuse the issue for me, because I admittedly don't know >>>>>>>>>>> exactly >>>>>>>>>>> how electricity flows through the machine: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --The Jaeger P-stat has allowed the machine to over-pressure >>>>>>>>>>> about 3 times in 5 months, causing the blowoff to activate. No way >>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>> should be happening with a new p-stat, but otherwise it has been >>>>>>>>>>> normal. >>>>>>>>>>> As an aside, Chris Coffee will not warrant the p-stat, stating 30 >>>>>>>>>>> days is >>>>>>>>>>> the warranty from that manufacturer. So I have a 90-day-old >>>>>>>>>>> failing part >>>>>>>>>>> that won't be covered. Unexpected. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --The PID display (which I have set to 204F) has stayed at 105F >>>>>>>>>>> for several hours each morning for about four days in a row, and >>>>>>>>>>> then later >>>>>>>>>>> in the day, has heated to 204F. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --As of two days ago, the PID heated the brew boiler to 105F and >>>>>>>>>>> stayed there all day, never heating to 204F. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --Earlier this week, one day only, the PID display was blank >>>>>>>>>>> when the machine was on. It remained blank for about an hour, then >>>>>>>>>>> suddenly lit up. It showed 105F. Every time the steam boiler >>>>>>>>>>> fired, the >>>>>>>>>>> PID screen would flicker and get really dim, almost not visible. >>>>>>>>>>> Then it >>>>>>>>>>> would brighten right back up when the steam boiler turned off. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --Most of the time (and this is an old thing, maybe normal), the >>>>>>>>>>> PID numbers and "dot" will blink every few seconds, i.e. they go >>>>>>>>>>> off for a >>>>>>>>>>> split second, and then come back on. The dot at this point will >>>>>>>>>>> not stay >>>>>>>>>>> on for more than a split second also, i.e. it never shows the boiler >>>>>>>>>>> calling for heat once the steam boiler is off. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --The same day the PID display was blank and dim, there was a >>>>>>>>>>> single time where the steam boiler filled, and then shut off >>>>>>>>>>> (solenoid >>>>>>>>>>> clicked), but the pump kept running indefinitely. I finally had to >>>>>>>>>>> turn >>>>>>>>>>> off the machine to make it stop. After power cycling the machine, >>>>>>>>>>> the pump >>>>>>>>>>> filled and stopped normally again. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --At this time, the steam boiler fills and heats normally, with >>>>>>>>>>> the exception of the machine-gun noise, which happens almost every >>>>>>>>>>> time. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> OK--I think that's it. I'm sorry if someone has told me this >>>>>>>>>>> before, but I'm trying to understand first how electricity travels >>>>>>>>>>> in the >>>>>>>>>>> machine. So far, the only thing that seems like a common point to >>>>>>>>>>> all of >>>>>>>>>>> these symptoms is the giemme controller, but that's based on my >>>>>>>>>>> limited >>>>>>>>>>> understanding. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> How I *think* it works is this: main power switch sends current >>>>>>>>>>> to the giemme, which sends current to the pump and to the pressure >>>>>>>>>>> stat >>>>>>>>>>> (via the two "relays" in the giemme?). If the steam boiler is not >>>>>>>>>>> up to >>>>>>>>>>> temp, the p-stat sends current to it until it is at pressure, then >>>>>>>>>>> it sends >>>>>>>>>>> current onward to the PID. The PID sends that onwards in bursts >>>>>>>>>>> via its >>>>>>>>>>> solid-state relay to heat the brew boiler. Meanwhile, the giemme >>>>>>>>>>> sends >>>>>>>>>>> current to the pump (via a relay?) and to the solenoid, so the >>>>>>>>>>> solenoid >>>>>>>>>>> closes, diverting water to the steam boiler, and the steam boiler >>>>>>>>>>> fills. >>>>>>>>>>> When water touches the probe in the steam boiler, it essentially >>>>>>>>>>> shorts out >>>>>>>>>>> and stops the pump, and the solenoid opens, sending water line >>>>>>>>>>> pressure to >>>>>>>>>>> the brew boiler, which is held back by the group. When the lever is >>>>>>>>>>> lifted, the lever mechanically opens the group to let water >>>>>>>>>>> through, and >>>>>>>>>>> the switch behind the lever sends power to the pump to cause it to >>>>>>>>>>> run and >>>>>>>>>>> push water under pressure through the group. If, while pulling a >>>>>>>>>>> shot, the >>>>>>>>>>> steam boiler level drops below its probe, the solenoid closes and >>>>>>>>>>> interrupts water to the brew boiler/group until the steam boiler is >>>>>>>>>>> filled >>>>>>>>>>> again. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Does that sound about right? Again, I would really like to >>>>>>>>>>> understand this whole circuit, especially the giemme controller and >>>>>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>>>>> the two mechanical contacts are for on that board. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --Also, my PID is about 5-6 years old by now; what is the >>>>>>>>>>> expected service life of those? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --Can I safely test the PID by reversing NO/NC terminals on the >>>>>>>>>>> P-stat? Wouldn't that have the effect of prioritizing the PID >>>>>>>>>>> first? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> OK, I'll stop. Enjoy your leftovers, and have a good coffee for >>>>>>>>>>> me! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> best, >>>>>>>>>>> Ben McC >>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my apple IIe >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> Visit 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an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Brewtus" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Brewtus" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Brewtus" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Brewtus" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Brewtus" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
