Got it, thanks! b Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 27, 2015, at 14:32, herman dickens <[email protected]> wrote: > > You should have it. Good luck. > h > >> On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 5:09 PM, Ben McCafferty <[email protected]> wrote: >> Yes, thanks! >> bmc >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 13:45, herman dickens <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> I can email it if you'd like. >>> >>>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 4:34 PM, Benjamin McCafferty <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> Sure, thanks. I probably have mine somewhere, but…. :) >>>> bmc >>>> >>>>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 1:33 PM, herman dickens <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I've got a new pid unit in the box that just came in wed from wll and it >>>>> has an instruction sheet in it that might help. let me know if you need >>>>> it. >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 4:28 PM, Benjamin McCafferty <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Thanks Herman, I think I have that and will look. I agree, find where >>>>>> the voltage is missing, but I’m not sure what is “normal” for the solid >>>>>> state relay, etc. Definitely have 120 there, and also at some of the >>>>>> PID display unit. Need to see where it’s *supposed* to be going but >>>>>> isn’t, if that makes sense. >>>>>> b >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 1:13 PM, herman dickens <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> just find out where the voltage is dropping. If you have 114 coming out >>>>>>> of the pressurestat at both point you know it's not that. That takes >>>>>>> care of half the machine. there's a wiring diagram on the brewtus >>>>>>> compendium, I found it after I posted, and it shows how everything is >>>>>>> routed. If you don't have a copy I can email one to you. >>>>>>> Herman >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 4:09 PM, Benjamin McCafferty >>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> OK--making some progress. I was looking at it backwards. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The com/1 wire comes FROM the giemme as you said, Herman--so there is >>>>>>>> 114V at the giemme, and 114V at the com/1 on the pstat. So that part >>>>>>>> is OK. I had the pstat backwards in my mind--so as would be expected, >>>>>>>> the normally closed/2 terminal on the pstat has 114V when steam is >>>>>>>> heating, so that part of the pstat is ok. That red wire goes to the >>>>>>>> high-limit on the steam boiler, and then on to the steam element. The >>>>>>>> far side of the steam high limit has 114V also, so that part is also >>>>>>>> OK. Since the steam boiler heats, I'll call that empirical evidence >>>>>>>> that the steam element is fine (albeit somewhat slow). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> When the steam boiler light turns off, the voltage at NC/2 drops to 0, >>>>>>>> as expected, and voltage at 4/NO jumps to 114V. The wire from 4/NO >>>>>>>> goes to the solid state relay 1/L1, and when the steam boiler shuts >>>>>>>> off, 1/L1 goes to 118V (assume I'm just seeing fluctuation in line >>>>>>>> voltage--readings have varied from 113-119V throughout). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On the relay, 2/T1 is at 0V, and 3/A1 and 4/A2 are at 118V. The PID >>>>>>>> display is flickering and dimming now independent of the steam >>>>>>>> boiler's operation. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2/T1 is the wire that goes to the high-limit on the brew boiler, and >>>>>>>> then on to the brew element. So I think Todd's previous email to me >>>>>>>> is correct, that we're looking at either PID or solid-state relay. At >>>>>>>> least I've now traced 120V all the way from the giemme to the relay; >>>>>>>> from there I'll have to see if there is a way to diagnose each part >>>>>>>> independently. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Still doesn't explain the chatter of the solenoid, unless that power >>>>>>>> comes from the relay or PID, and then if the PID was failing it could >>>>>>>> be sending bogus voltage, i.e. interrupted or whatever. But there is >>>>>>>> a terminal on the giemme for "bomba" (pump) and so I've always thought >>>>>>>> that the pump's power came from the giemme. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Closer, but still puzzling a bit. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> b >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my apple IIe >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 12:15, herman dickens <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I think that the pstat gets line voltage from the controller and then >>>>>>>>> sends it to the steam or brew boiler from there. I think it's a white >>>>>>>>> wire and the voltage there should be 120. it should also output the >>>>>>>>> same voltage to either the brew or steam boiler depending on which is >>>>>>>>> calling for it. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 3:07 PM, Benjamin McCafferty >>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> So riddle me this, Batman--does power come FROM the solid state >>>>>>>>>> relay, TO the p-stat--or the other way around? If the former, then >>>>>>>>>> seems the relay is the culprit since the PID probably doesn't handle >>>>>>>>>> line voltage to the boiler, right? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I'll see if I can check input to the relay. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> b >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent from my apple IIe >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 12:04, Benjamin McCafferty <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> At the rocker switch is 112.9. At the outer two terminals of the >>>>>>>>>>> PID with the negative held to a ground bolt on the case is 113.2. >>>>>>>>>>> Center two terminals of the PID are 4 or less. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Good thought on the ground, I'll check. That was the culprit on >>>>>>>>>>> old BMW motorcycles more times than not... >>>>>>>>>>> b >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my apple IIe >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 11:55, herman dickens >>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> You could have a loose wire, but I doubt it. What's the voltage >>>>>>>>>>>> going into the pid? You could also have a bad ground. I've had >>>>>>>>>>>> that happen on other things and it causes the power to be all over >>>>>>>>>>>> the place. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Benjamin McCafferty >>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, update. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> When I turn on the machine, I put a voltmeter across the pstat >>>>>>>>>>>>> terminals. While the steam boiler was heating, terminals 1/com >>>>>>>>>>>>> and 4/no show 60 volts. 1 and 2 of course show nothing. If I >>>>>>>>>>>>> reverse wires 2/nc and 4/no, then cross pstat terminals 1 and 4, >>>>>>>>>>>>> I get 120V. Switching them back to their normal configuration, >>>>>>>>>>>>> once the steam boiler is heated and switched off, crossing 1 and >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2 shows 120V. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Now this is interesting. I had suggested to Todd that the >>>>>>>>>>>>> flickering of the PID and the machine-gun thing make me thing of >>>>>>>>>>>>> an under-current situation, i.e. not enough power to make the >>>>>>>>>>>>> relay fire crisply and all the way. I have also notice lately >>>>>>>>>>>>> (though it didn't occur to me as to why), that my steam boiler is >>>>>>>>>>>>> being outrun when I steam milk. Lastly, it took forever for the >>>>>>>>>>>>> vacuum breaker to seal shut just now; and it makes sense since >>>>>>>>>>>>> the steam element is only getting 60V. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> So now the question becomes, why is reduced voltage happening on >>>>>>>>>>>>> this one wire? It goes to the solid state relay on terminal 1/L1. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> b >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my apple IIe >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 11:24, Benjamin McCafferty >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Likewise. It did occur to me that the pstat relies on a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> flexible rubber diaphragm; perhaps that has hardened over time >>>>>>>>>>>>>> as it sat on a shelf for three years. Pinging Chris again; >>>>>>>>>>>>>> also, he had offered 20%, not 10%, my mistake. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Talk soon, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> bmc >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my apple IIe >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 11:17, herman dickens >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It seems like mine was around that date too. The second new one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> says 4/15. They could have had a bad run of pstats or it could >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just be bad luck. My last pstat lasted almost 8 years. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 2:11 PM, Benjamin McCafferty >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Herman. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pstat looks like mfg date of 6/12; shouldn't matter but there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you go. Chris will give 10% discount on a new one, but still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chaps my butt. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll try to pull the giemme cover and watch the relay--don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> try this at home, kids! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I instinctively don't think the PID or element is bad, but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will try the p-stat reversal thing and see where that takes me. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll post again in a bit. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> b >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my apple IIe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 11:07, herman dickens >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben fwiw it sounds like you have 2 problems. I had the same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem with a pstat and it only lasted 2 months. The next >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one worked fine. There should be a mfg date on the pstat. It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems like my first one was several years old and the second >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one was this year. I was having the same symptoms with the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> relief valve but no chatter. The chatter sounds like a relay >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or a solenoid. Can you pull the cover off and look at the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> relay while the chattering is going on? That might help >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> narrow things down. You could have a bad pid or element in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the brew boiler causing that not to get up to temp but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honestly I don't work on these things enough to do anything >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but guess. I just bought the pid upgrade for my machine but I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> may hold off on installing it for a few more days. Maybe Todd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will jump in and give you some ideas. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Herman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 1:57 PM, Benjamin McCafferty >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey all! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hope you all had a great thanksgiving and that you're all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> waking from your food comas. I had more pie for breakfast, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but alas, with no espresso. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will be talking to Todd soon about this, but thought I'd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also ping the collective and see if anyone has any ideas. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, I have a collection of symptoms at this point >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I can't make fit a common cause; perhaps they will make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sense to one of you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As you may recall, I had quite a bit of trouble this summer, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and during that process I replaced: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --Both hi-limit switches >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --One or both boiler elements >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --Giemme controller board with the updated one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --PID temp probe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --Main power switch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --New Jaeger pressure-stat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, as with this summer's shenanigans, my mom is visiting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in two weeks, and dearly loves a good latte. I spent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> several hundred on overnight charges, parts, etc. while she >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was here in the summer, and managed 2 days of lattes for her >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in her three-week visit. Hoping to get the machine back in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> action fast! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At the same time I did all that work, I totally disassembled >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything, descaled completely, and cleaned the solenoid >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> until it was shiny, i.e. all scale removed, etc. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solenoid functioned fine with power. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The machine worked normally from summer until this week, but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with one weird symptom. It would occasionally make a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machine-gun noise, i.e. something mechanical opening and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> closing very rapidly, 5-10 times per second maybe. To me, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is a higher pitched sound than the solenoid, and sounds >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like it originates from the area of the giemme controller. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Todd suspected the solenoid might be sticking; I was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking perhaps one of the two relays in the giemme >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> controller was misfiring (not sure that they are even >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> relays--but I'm referring to the two small sets of contacts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the giemme that look like points from a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> points-and-condensor ignition). At its worst, this symptom >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would continue for 10+ seconds and I'd shut the machine off >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and back on; it would seem to "reset" and stop. At its >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best, it would last for a few seconds and stop on its own. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It clearly is related to when the machine goes to refill the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> steam boiler, i.e. when closing the steam wand, dumping hot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> water boiler, etc. is when this would happen, very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intermittently. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As of a week ago, the machine-gun thing got really bad, i.e. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it happens 4-5 times while steaming enough milk for a latte, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc. When shutting off the steam wand, when it goes to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> refill, the machine-gun noise happens every time and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> frequently does not stop. As the machine sits at idle and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> occasionally refills the steam boiler, it also makes the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noise every time. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At this point, it would seem to me that the culprit would be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the giemme or the solenoid, but wait, there's more... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A few other symptoms have happened in the past week, which >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really confuse the issue for me, because I admittedly don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know exactly how electricity flows through the machine: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --The Jaeger P-stat has allowed the machine to over-pressure >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about 3 times in 5 months, causing the blowoff to activate. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No way this should be happening with a new p-stat, but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> otherwise it has been normal. As an aside, Chris Coffee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will not warrant the p-stat, stating 30 days is the warranty >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from that manufacturer. So I have a 90-day-old failing part >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that won't be covered. Unexpected. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --The PID display (which I have set to 204F) has stayed at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 105F for several hours each morning for about four days in a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> row, and then later in the day, has heated to 204F. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --As of two days ago, the PID heated the brew boiler to 105F >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and stayed there all day, never heating to 204F. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --Earlier this week, one day only, the PID display was blank >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when the machine was on. It remained blank for about an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hour, then suddenly lit up. It showed 105F. Every time the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> steam boiler fired, the PID screen would flicker and get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really dim, almost not visible. Then it would brighten >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right back up when the steam boiler turned off. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --Most of the time (and this is an old thing, maybe normal), >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the PID numbers and "dot" will blink every few seconds, i.e. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they go off for a split second, and then come back on. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dot at this point will not stay on for more than a split >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> second also, i.e. it never shows the boiler calling for heat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once the steam boiler is off. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --The same day the PID display was blank and dim, there was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a single time where the steam boiler filled, and then shut >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off (solenoid clicked), but the pump kept running >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indefinitely. I finally had to turn off the machine to make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it stop. After power cycling the machine, the pump filled >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and stopped normally again. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --At this time, the steam boiler fills and heats normally, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the exception of the machine-gun noise, which happens >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost every time. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK--I think that's it. I'm sorry if someone has told me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this before, but I'm trying to understand first how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> electricity travels in the machine. So far, the only thing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that seems like a common point to all of these symptoms is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the giemme controller, but that's based on my limited >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How I *think* it works is this: main power switch sends >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current to the giemme, which sends current to the pump and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the pressure stat (via the two "relays" in the giemme?). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If the steam boiler is not up to temp, the p-stat sends >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current to it until it is at pressure, then it sends current >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> onward to the PID. The PID sends that onwards in bursts via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its solid-state relay to heat the brew boiler. Meanwhile, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the giemme sends current to the pump (via a relay?) and to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the solenoid, so the solenoid closes, diverting water to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> steam boiler, and the steam boiler fills. When water >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> touches the probe in the steam boiler, it essentially shorts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out and stops the pump, and the solenoid opens, sending >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> water line pressure to the brew boiler, which is held back >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by the group. When the lever is lifted, the lever >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mechanically opens the group to let water through, and the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> switch behind the lever sends power to the pump to cause it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to run and push water under pressure through the group. If, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while pulling a shot, the steam boiler level drops below its >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> probe, the solenoid closes and interrupts water to the brew >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> boiler/group until the steam boiler is filled again. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does that sound about right? Again, I would really like to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand this whole circuit, especially the giemme >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> controller and what the two mechanical contacts are for on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that board. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --Also, my PID is about 5-6 years old by now; what is the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expected service life of those? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --Can I safely test the PID by reversing NO/NC terminals on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the P-stat? Wouldn't that have the effect of prioritizing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the PID first? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, I'll stop. Enjoy your leftovers, and have a good coffee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for me! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben McC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my apple IIe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from it, send an email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>>>> Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>>> Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>> Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "Brewtus" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to [email protected]. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "Brewtus" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Brewtus" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Brewtus" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Brewtus" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Brewtus" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/brewtus. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
