P.S. I don’t recall what the water supply is, but I think I do recall that (for the US) it’s a weird size and hard to find. b
> On May 4, 2023, at 07:11, 'Ben McCafferty' via Brewtus > <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hey there Peter! > Saw all the pics yesterday as well, none of it scares me very much. I was > going to comment that you’ve found your leak when I saw the brown stains > under the boiler! > > The E61 internals don’t look bad to me, and much of that will be replaced > anyway. It should clean up well. > > The factory wiring looks really good actually—I’m guessing this machine > hasn’t been on very much each day. Mine is on from about 5AM to noon, and all > the white shields on the female plugs became brittle and broke off after a > number of years. > > $500 was a good price I think! > > As to the pressure, I don’t think my B2 (nor my current ECM) ever returns to > zero—that also doesn’t strike me as odd. > > I think when you get the old insulation pulled and start cleaning things up, > you will be pleasantly surprised. It’s like a barn find for an old moto! > > Best, > b > > > >> On May 3, 2023, at 20:54, peter riess <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> <IMG_3625.jpeg> >> The water supply. This must be 3/8 BSA? >> >> <IMG_3622.jpeg> >> >> This is the pipe from the boiler to the brewgroup. Might be the source of >> the leak? >> >> <IMG_3618.jpeg> >> >> Is the normal looking wear and tear? >> >> <IMG_3617.jpeg> >> >> Shouldn’t the pressure be at zero, not at 2? Machine is unplugged. >> >> Thanks for taking a look and sharing any thoughts! >> >> Peter >> >>> On May 3, 2023, at 9:02 PM, peter riess <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> I picked up the machine and opened her up. Looks like a project! A few >>> wiring issues, some old heat baked components, and some scary looking white >>> buildup on the boiler. >>> Only paid $500 in the end... >>> >>> Attached are some images. >>> <D3659062-D4ED-498B-9C2A-5A6AB728CB10_1_102_o.jpeg><46B97167-CEC5-490A-ADD0-379CB408F3B1_1_102_o.jpeg><2DC417DD-D99C-43DB-8829-8B674DA9E83B_1_102_o.jpeg><C52FDF04-C00A-479F-BE90-E6738354ADFB_1_102_o.jpeg> >>> >>> On Monday, May 1, 2023 at 8:00:10 PM UTC-6 Ben McCafferty wrote: >>> Heck yeah! >>> b >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On May 1, 2023, at 17:25, peter riess <[email protected] >>>> <applewebdata://AA24C287-2DBE-4AF7-9F33-152E7DADCAC6>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Update - It’s been on a filtration system since it was purchased and it >>>> comes with a back stock of replacement parts. I feel pretty confident and >>>> at $600, maybe worth the future trouble? >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 5:34 PM, 'Ben McCafferty' via Brewtus >>>>> <[email protected] >>>>> <applewebdata://AA24C287-2DBE-4AF7-9F33-152E7DADCAC6>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Ps one way you can do This is just to go ahead and replace everything >>>>> that can fail. Then you basically get a new machine with your own labor >>>>> to blame for any failures, ha ha. That would definitely get you a period >>>>> of reliability, but possibly with unnecessary expense up front. >>>>> >>>>> b >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 16:16, peter riess <[email protected] >>>>>> <applewebdata://AA24C287-2DBE-4AF7-9F33-152E7DADCAC6>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Ben, >>>>>> >>>>>> Every few months? That may be more that I can stand… $700 is sounding >>>>>> expensive at that rate. >>>>>> >>>>>> I wonder how much time and money do you think Expobar owners are >>>>>> spending on annual maintenance? >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> >>>>>> Peter >>>>>> >>>>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 5:02 PM, 'Ben McCafferty' via Brewtus >>>>>>> <[email protected] >>>>>>> <applewebdata://AA24C287-2DBE-4AF7-9F33-152E7DADCAC6>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A bunch of great advice here. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Plumbed/vs water jug. Soooooo nice to have it plumbed. Even nicer to >>>>>>> have the drain plumbed. Having done both with my current machine, I’d >>>>>>> never go back. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Pitcher’s advice re: bigger heating element is good; you can also >>>>>>> adjust the pressure stat to set the steam boiler to its max, around >>>>>>> 1.45 bar if memory serves. This made a world of difference for me vs. >>>>>>> stock settings. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As to the multiple failed p-stats per year (that is quite exceptional >>>>>>> Adam!), I don’t recall the brand but we used to discuss switching to a >>>>>>> non-stock model that was available at Chris’ Coffee and maybe Espresso >>>>>>> Parts. It was great (Jaeger maybe?). Search my old posts and you’ll >>>>>>> find it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Heat time—half hour is about right, to really get the group head up to >>>>>>> temp (which is the strength of this machine’s design, as is the case >>>>>>> with all E61’s). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Price—$700 max sounds reasonable. You could always mention this group >>>>>>> and the consensus here? By about 10 years of age, I was working on my >>>>>>> machine every few months, and after about 2 more years of that, went >>>>>>> with the ECM instead. Holy crap have they gotten expensive though! The >>>>>>> ECM likes to eat vacuum breakers, and also they have a silicon tube >>>>>>> that goes from the vacuum breaker to the drip tray (a nice touch, keeps >>>>>>> the steam condensation out of the housing). That tubing rots regularly >>>>>>> also. I’ve done one element, very easy replacement method. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> By the by, I mentioned using teflon tape instead of the liquid sealant. >>>>>>> Another plus there—you’ll get to know the joy of removing a heating >>>>>>> element from a Brewtus if it’s glued in with the factory >>>>>>> sealant—definitely need a friend with an impact hammer and a way to >>>>>>> clamp the boiler in a vise without bending it. With teflon tape, the >>>>>>> remove/replace is worlds easier. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Rotary and PID were great (I upgraded to both on my B2)—the vibe pump >>>>>>> was a regular replacement item also; the rotary never needed work other >>>>>>> than setting the pressure when I installed it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Backflush weekly with cafiza—and let it soak in there for an hour under >>>>>>> pressure if you can! It will keep your shots really nice. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best of luck, keep us posted! >>>>>>> b >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 13:56, peter riess <[email protected] >>>>>>>> <applewebdata://AA24C287-2DBE-4AF7-9F33-152E7DADCAC6>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sounds like my old hot tub… Thanks to it, I could probably have a part >>>>>>>> time tub repair job! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Anyway, thanks again. I’ll see if I can get it to a dollar point where >>>>>>>> it feels like a fun hobby, not a money pit. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 2:43 PM, Adam Meade <[email protected] >>>>>>>>> <applewebdata://AA24C287-2DBE-4AF7-9F33-152E7DADCAC6>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> When I got my IV-Rotary, I stuck the hose in a jug of water for a few >>>>>>>>> months until I was able to plumb it in. No issues there. When I did >>>>>>>>> plumb it, my water pressure was too high causing a leak in the >>>>>>>>> machine so I had to add a pressure regulator upstream from it. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'll echo what others have said... you'd best be handy to own this >>>>>>>>> machine. In the 6 or so years I have owned it, I've replaced several >>>>>>>>> parts including a control board, a heating element, a sensor, and for >>>>>>>>> whatever reason I am averaging going through about two pressurestat >>>>>>>>> per year (I buy them in bulk now). If you enjoy learning about these >>>>>>>>> machines and don't mind working on them, then go for it, but if you >>>>>>>>> don't, then steer clear. On the upside, this group is extremely >>>>>>>>> helpful as has been Whole Latte Love tech support. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For heat up time, mine is about 8-10 minutes for the steam boiler >>>>>>>>> followed by about 10 for the brew boiler. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 4:32 PM Jason Scott <[email protected] >>>>>>>>> <applewebdata://AA24C287-2DBE-4AF7-9F33-152E7DADCAC6>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hmmm, others will have to chime in on whether or not you can just >>>>>>>>> stick a hose into a water vessel. I tend to think that the rotary >>>>>>>>> pump needs a minimum water pressure to function, but I could be wrong >>>>>>>>> there. >>>>>>>>> 35 minutes is more than enough time to heat up. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Monday, May 1, 2023 at 3:19:34 PM UTC-5 peter riess wrote: >>>>>>>>> The Brewtus Crew is awesome, thanks all. Good to hear this as well. >>>>>>>>> I’m currently using a GCP so this would be a big upgrade. Maybe a >>>>>>>>> huge time suck as well.. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Is 35min accurate for heat up time? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Any thoughts on plumbing vs dropping the tube into a big ol jug of >>>>>>>>> good H2O. Plumbing would entail splitting my the icemachine line and >>>>>>>>> figuring out an inline filter and some holes in counters, walls, etc. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 2:09 PM, Jason Scott <[email protected] <>> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> They're no longer made, but the parts are all pretty universal >>>>>>>>>> (heating elements, steam/water controls, pstat, etc.) I think I'd be >>>>>>>>>> right there with you on the price. I would LIKELY pass on a leaking >>>>>>>>>> machine at $950, but would likely jump on it at $600-$700. The >>>>>>>>>> plumbed rotary IV version is quite a nice machine. My biggest gripe >>>>>>>>>> (which is a common one) is the lack of steam power, but there are >>>>>>>>>> ways to improve that with different tips/wands. I chose a >>>>>>>>>> higher-wattage steam element, and if the elements are due for >>>>>>>>>> replacement anyway, this is an option (but not a trivial option, as >>>>>>>>>> it does involve replacing wiring that's not intended for higher >>>>>>>>>> current). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Monday, May 1, 2023 at 2:51:19 PM UTC-5 peter riess wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for that beta! Good info to take into consideration. The ask >>>>>>>>>> is $950 but, assuming the worst, I wouldn’t want to pay much more >>>>>>>>>> than $600-700. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> She also has some back up bits and parts, prepared for the end of >>>>>>>>>> the line for the brand. I gather these are no longer made and parts >>>>>>>>>> are harder to find than for an old Quick Mill, for example?? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 1:32 PM, 'Ben McCafferty' via Brewtus >>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected] <>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hey there Peter, >>>>>>>>>>> I think you have some unknowns here, and the bottom line is: what >>>>>>>>>>> discount are you getting, how willing are you to replace/repair >>>>>>>>>>> parts, and as Pitcher said how handy are you? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I owned a B2 from new for 12 years or so (still have it, no longer >>>>>>>>>>> in service), and now have an ECM (another E61 machine, very >>>>>>>>>>> similar). At 8 years, you are definitely into the phase where you >>>>>>>>>>> will be replacing things and I feel that’s to be expected. As to >>>>>>>>>>> the lack of descaling, that may or may not be an issue—where I >>>>>>>>>>> live, I rarely descaled my brewtus and didn’t have any buildup to >>>>>>>>>>> mention. Definitely not the case in all areas. As an aside, I’ve >>>>>>>>>>> been using the BWT system (WLL carries it) for maybe 6 years now >>>>>>>>>>> and it is money well spent. No more descaling is their claim, it’s >>>>>>>>>>> been true for me (I live in a different area now than I did with >>>>>>>>>>> the B2 that didn’t scale, harder water here). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> If it were me, I’d consider the following parts likely to need >>>>>>>>>>> replacing relatively soon: >>>>>>>>>>> —both boiler elements >>>>>>>>>>> —overheat sensors on top of both boilers >>>>>>>>>>> —pressurestat >>>>>>>>>>> —vibe pump if it’s a vibe machine and possibly solenoid/plunger >>>>>>>>>>> —miscellaneous copper and silicon tubing, esp the copper tubing to >>>>>>>>>>> the hot water boiler which is prone to clogging shut >>>>>>>>>>> —seals for the E61 group >>>>>>>>>>> —vacuum breaker for the steam boiler (this can be repaired with a >>>>>>>>>>> simple o-ring, instead of buying the whole part from a vendor—I >>>>>>>>>>> have a bag of 100 high temp/food grade and happy to send you one or >>>>>>>>>>> more). >>>>>>>>>>> —E61 portafilter gasket and screen >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Less likely but possible: >>>>>>>>>>> —PID >>>>>>>>>>> —Giemme control box >>>>>>>>>>> —over pressure relief valve on the steam boiler >>>>>>>>>>> —seals for the wands >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> So if you add those up, and they are less than the discount you’re >>>>>>>>>>> getting on the machine vs. new (and you like to work on machines), >>>>>>>>>>> I’d say go for it! In any case, you will know the machine well, and >>>>>>>>>>> since you’ll be doing future maintenance on any machine, it’s good >>>>>>>>>>> knowledge to have. Meanwhile, I’d just get the machine and use it, >>>>>>>>>>> fix the leak, and then be pleasantly surprised (and money ahead) >>>>>>>>>>> for the time that you don’t need to do the things I mentioned >>>>>>>>>>> above. ;) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> As to Pitcher’s comment about his machine leaking since new, that >>>>>>>>>>> is not normal in my experience. I can’t recall a leak in mine ever, >>>>>>>>>>> unless a line blew or something like that. You should be able to >>>>>>>>>>> chase that down and fix it, I hope you can too Pitcher! Water under >>>>>>>>>>> the machine is one of those things that drains my energy fast—just >>>>>>>>>>> annoys the crap out of me I guess! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> One tip/suggestion—Expobar uses a liquid sealant on threads. It >>>>>>>>>>> works great, but it sets up FAST. You have to be really quick to >>>>>>>>>>> get things aligned, etc., especially on the pump assembly. I have >>>>>>>>>>> always used yellow teflon tape instead (you could add teflon paste >>>>>>>>>>> over the tape if you wish) and have never had a leak that I can >>>>>>>>>>> recall. Just might save you a little headache/heartburn. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Best and good luck with the decision and/or new machine! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> b >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 12:08, peter riess <[email protected] <>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the reply. From her description the dripping is coming >>>>>>>>>>>> from a spot under one of the boilers. I assume it was build for >>>>>>>>>>>> the states. My biggest concern I guess is the maintenance over the >>>>>>>>>>>> last 8 yrs... >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 1, 2023, at 12:58 PM, Pitcher Pitcher <[email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>> <>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I do not think the dripping is a sign of something major. Mine is >>>>>>>>>>>>> 15 years old and it drips since I have owned it. I would have to >>>>>>>>>>>>> see where it is dripping from to give you a better idea. There >>>>>>>>>>>>> are some things to consider if you are going to purchase. How >>>>>>>>>>>>> handy are you? Some things I would recommend doing to your >>>>>>>>>>>>> machine to make it more hardy. Is the machine for the States or >>>>>>>>>>>>> Overseas? The machine was built for 220 v 10 amps. The States >>>>>>>>>>>>> where I live are 120 v 20 amps. The extra amps over time has >>>>>>>>>>>>> caused some problems. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 10:46 AM peter riess <[email protected] <>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Seller claims she bought it new from WLL. Works well bur >>>>>>>>>>>>> apparently it drips a small amount of discolored water as it >>>>>>>>>>>>> warms up. Collects on counter under machine. She's never descaled >>>>>>>>>>>>> it for the 8+/- yrs she's owned it. I am not sure about her water >>>>>>>>>>>>> quality but she has it on a filter. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Does the dripping raise a hairy red flag?? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for any feedback! >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected] <>. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/42ebc17c-56b2-4ddd-893e-107e0b924ffbn%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/42ebc17c-56b2-4ddd-893e-107e0b924ffbn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Pitcher" >>>>>>>>>>>>> Stephen Pitcher >>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] <> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 225-408-9041 <tel:(225)%20408-9041> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected] <>. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/CACn%2BS8Fx2sED_Qdsyb0m%3D4z9aogMewzBDjKf_e9vz3eEGULamQ%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/CACn%2BS8Fx2sED_Qdsyb0m%3D4z9aogMewzBDjKf_e9vz3eEGULamQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>>>> Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected] <>. >>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on 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<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/EBEAEE7C-6F5D-4F15-A2C3-93AE97345AAA%40me.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>> Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected] <>. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/5fbe977b-dd4e-4909-ad28-64e1f836af7cn%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/5fbe977b-dd4e-4909-ad28-64e1f836af7cn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected] 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<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/CAOJZtCL131o8ZqdaB7kBvc2%3DXftpAotYMjf8f4wZt3CUnd8MEA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>>>> an email to [email protected] >>>>>>>> <applewebdata://AA24C287-2DBE-4AF7-9F33-152E7DADCAC6>. >>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/85DA36D5-92D6-4053-9AC8-CDACD7B9C699%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/85DA36D5-92D6-4053-9AC8-CDACD7B9C699%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>>> an email 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<2DC417DD-D99C-43DB-8829-8B674DA9E83B_1_102_o.jpeg><46B97167-CEC5-490A-ADD0-379CB408F3B1_1_102_o.jpeg><D3659062-D4ED-498B-9C2A-5A6AB728CB10_1_102_o.jpeg><C52FDF04-C00A-479F-BE90-E6738354ADFB_1_102_o.jpeg> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Brewtus" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/62DB9042-B60E-465F-8A04-44413BB96D8D%40gmail.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/brewtus/62DB9042-B60E-465F-8A04-44413BB96D8D%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Brewtus" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web 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