[snip] > From: Gary P. McNeel, Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 3:47 PM > To: CF-Community > Subject: RE: How long? > > >> The use of violence is not a civilization denegrator. Nuking > baghdad > > >Exactly. Where does it stop? > > Where? When they are no longer a threat. When they no longer exist.
When who or what is no longer a threat? Bin Laden? He is just today's bad guy. There are plenty more where he comes from. > > > >> Posit: Hussein is found to have been the source of the Anthrax used > > >Try him in international court, the Hague. You don't kill an entire > city. > > I don't like the Hague. Who do they answer too? Who keeps > them in line? > Whose laws are they bound by? And once you get bin Laden, are you going > to round up the thousands, if not tens of thousands, of individuals who > aided and abetted this thing? Do you think we should send FBI agents to > Afghanistan with arrest warrants to go door to door? The job in > Afghanistan right now is the elimination of both Al Qaeda and Taliban > elelments in the country. Bush said we would punish those who helped and > that is what we are doing. What you like or dislike is moot. The Hague was formed out of international law. I won't bother with the FBI question, they failed in the 9/11 matter, why should they do any better now? Here: http://www.icj-cij.org/ and some good reading here: http://www.dannen.com/decision/int-law.html Bush said we are going to punish those who helped. What, like the people in Afghanistan get good, unbiased news to make informed decisions about there choice of leaders or even why the US is bombing their country? Do you think "those that helped" have been in any way punished? I doubt that very seriously. They will lay low, let a lot of innocent people suffer in the name of Allah, and then resurface. Who knows, I could be wrong, we should have this discussion again in 20 years. > > > >> again (except arrest more people). The US has one hell of a record of > >> practicing restraint. > > >So what is point? What if we HAD retaliated? Might it be that 1 billion > >Moslems would hate us instead of a handfull? Most Afghani's probably > didn't > >know crap about America before 9/11. > > Because we don't want to upset people, we should leave them > alone? How > many Japanese were upset that we didn't roll over after Pearl Harbor? I don't understand this question. I am sure the entire country of Japan was disappointed. So if this had been a German group (e.g. Bader-Meinhoff), would we inter all white people? Would we inter Germans? > > Muslims do not like us, period. A lot of them tolerate us, > but Islam is > not a religion tolerant of other religions or governments. Ah, I see. You know a lot of Muslims? They tell you this? Out of 1 billion, you know they don't like us. Pretty convenient then, them all lumped into a group and all, easy to round up and kill. I'm sure you have travelled widely and met people from many different lands, many people in the group have. Our experiences must have been vastly different. Most people I met in other countries did not hate us, and in fact were friendly and courteus. This includes Turkey, Egypt, Philippines and Mali. > > The US, a nation founded on the Christian faith, is a > country tolerant > of every religion on this planet, except when actions are committed > which are legal violations. Heck, we let people use drugs and opt out of > the Social Security system for religious reasons. We let people > conscientiously object themselves right out of the draft because of > religion. This country goes out of its way to do what it can to respect > the beliefs of others. Tolerant? Please. The only thing keeping the Pat Robertsons and Falwells of this country running roughshod over every other religious group is our secular laws. I have sat in more sermons than I care to count. Christian faith greatly influenced this country, granted. Only, I don't recall ever seeing that the Bible said "sure, you can practice another faith and still get to heaven." The things you said above are done in law, not religion. The founders new how badly religion could be subverted by man and used for harm, thus the distinct seperation of church and state. > > > >What you want is some people dead. You want us to puff out our chest > and > >kick some ass. Only, whose ass do you kick? The "people". What did they > do. > >Shit man, they are just trying to eak out a living. You don't see many > fat > >people in Iraq. Or people with all their teeth. Or medical centers, > etc. > > Yes. I do want some people dead. I want all of those > involved in this > dead. And made dead in a very blunt and overwhelming manner. This is not > a war against the Afghan People. Heck, we have not applied the tenets of > "Total War" here. But bin Laden has, and a lot of people have missed > this point. He stated in his video that anyone paying taxes in the US is > his enemy. So if it is not a war against the Afghani people, why are we attacking their government and them? Sure, we chose not to recognize them, but what weight does that have in their country. Of course it is not Total War, we are not at war with Afghanistan, they are just harboring fugitives. Like Argentina has harbored German war criminals. Let me tell you what it sounds like your view is on this issue from my perspective. It sounds like, because these people are not Christians and do not share your belief system (they are Muslims and all hate us, as you said above), then it is okay to attack their country. And President Bush goes on TV and says, "Any country harboring terrorists is in big trouble..." and under his breath he says, "...as long as they look different from us and have a different religion and are smaller and weaker and we don't have to loose to many troops in a protracted land war and.... in essence, Afghanistan." I suppose it makes it easier if they are not white, they are thousands of miles away, there are no TV news reports showing their suffering, and you do not agree with their form of government. > > WWII brought us Dresden. An annihilation of no purpose. The war was > over at that point. Devestating Dresden brought us no closer to victory. > Yet we did it. So we should have that happen again? > > Bomber Harris brought the wrath of the Allies to the Axis > in Europe, > and the British people hated him for it. The British were all gung ho > for the destruction of the Axis until that destruction was brought home > to the German people. If we were Harris today, Kabul would not exist. Yes, he did. A lot of people died for that. Good people, people caught up in the propaganda of their time. People with no TVs, few radios, etc. People told that Poland and Russia had attacked them by their own leaders. Are our leaders, who have lied to and cheated us in the past, so different now? -Gary > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
