Well now Janet I am sure we are going to have some lively discussion on the points you raise.......VBG Firstly - << By going to the well too often--I mean the stock has been too heavily line-bred or in-bred. Having a particular dog 3 or more times close up in a pedigree is too much. I have seen loss of bone in Cavaliers in the same situation.>>>>>>
Other people opinions might differ on this! VBG I don't think it necessarily causes lack of bone. Consulting my trusty Book of Champions 1928-1999, I in that during that period there were only 11 times when a dog (or bitch) has appeared 3 times in the first 3 generations of the pedigree. Not a lot considering how many champions there were during that period so I suppose one can conclude that in general, Cavalier breeders haven't bred "too closely". There are two instances of an individual appearing 4 times! These are the ones followed by year of birth and ancestor who appears in the pedigree Ch Amanda Loo of Ttiweh 1946 - Plantation Banjo Ch Royalist of Veren 1946 - Plantation Robert Ch Comfort of Ttiweh 1945 - Plantation Robert Ch Trilby of Ttiweh 1950 - Cannonhill Richey Ch Mingshang Fabian 1949 - Cannonhill Richey Ch Armourer of Ttiweh 1950 - Cannonhill Richey Ch Ophelia of Ttiweh 1950 - Cannonhill Richey then a long gap to Ch Milkeyn Flame 1986 - Ch Homaranne Caption Ch Pageant of Homerbrent 1987 - Ch Homaranne Caption Ch Ravensbreech Ragusa 1987 - Ch Homaranne Caption Ch Homerbrent tradition 1991 - Ch Homerbrent Carson I have personally seen all these later group and I don't think any of them lacked bone. Perhaps we could ask Katie Eldred about the earlier ones?......... The other two examples were Ch Pineridge Bridie born in 1954 who has Ch Daywell Roger four times in the third generation, the only example in the book of such close breeding on a male. & Ch Salador Celtic Maid born 1982 who has the bitch Salador Crumpet 4 times in the third generation. If I have missed any other examples forgive me.......there are many, many instances of a dog appearing twice in a 3 generation pedigree. But on the whole, these pedigrees are not as closely bred close up as pedigrees in some other breeds. Among the names that keep popping up with great regularity in the early pedigrees are Mars of Ttiweh and The Young Pretender of Grenewich - obviously very influential sires ..... I would love to know just what they were like. Jeanie ========================================================= "Magic Commands": to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL to start it up gain click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 1999 by its original author.
