Myra By going to the well too often--I mean the stock has been too heavily line-bred or in-bred. Having a particular dog 3 or more times close up in a pedigree is too much. I have seen loss of bone in Cavaliers in the same situation.
Bratt was a Smooth Fox Terrier. I would also like to more clearly state that I feel we need more exaggerated dogs used for breeding in Cavaliers--plain to plain begets plain. Janet Dalton Myra Savant wrote: > Janet, thanks for your reply on this issue. I found one of your statements > very interesting and I need for you to educate me a little bit about it. (I > don't want to sound dumb, but if I don't know something, I ask questions) > What exactly does it mean where you say..."If you went to the well too > often, you lost bone". I am asking because I thought my last litter was a > little bit too fine boned, but had overall good structure. I thought maybe > it was because there were nine pups, but thinking from a genetic point of > view, of course I know that isn't the case. If you don't mind taking a > minute, I would appreciate some information about good bone on these dogs. > Myra Savant > > >From: Janet Dalton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel List > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] influential dogs > >Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:20:38 -0500 > > > >I would like to respond regarding my husbands dog--Ch. Ttarb The > >Bratt--Bratt is the Sire of 137 AKC Champions--he had the most exquisite > >head and expression(sorely lacking in the breed at the time) a classic body > >and outline-good rear--there was enough of him and he could have had a > >better shoulder--his influence on the breed is seen in the ring today. > >Where there problems--of course -if you went to the well too often you lost > >bone--there have been no major health issues from his line > >to date. Bratt was an exaggerated dog however I believe you must have that > >in any breed to maintain type( I see that in Cavaliers today). > > > >I would also like to mention the Soft Coated Wheaten Terrier Club of > >America. In the early 80s we instituted a proctocol for our Breeders > >List--you must have both OFA clearances and Eye clearances(prior to CERF) > >to be eligibleto be on the list---HD has been reduced-but not eliminated > >and eyes are in very good shape in the breed. That is not to say that > >there are no other problems in the breed that are now being addressed. > > > >Dr. Padgett states in his book that if we did not breed carriers we would > >never breed another litter---the trick is to prioritize by how fatal to > >the dog the defect may be and linebreed to reduce the incidence. > > > >I would not choose-in any breed--to have ugly untypey dogs-I choose > >beautiful dogs bred from non-affected stock-and discard problems as I go. > > > >Until both Cavalier clubs work together--and all lines are available to all > >breeders the goals we seek are not easily attainable. > > > >Janet Dalton > > > > > > > >Cavatibs wrote: > > > > > I believe there was a Cocker called My Own Brucie that had a major > >impact on the breed as he won Westminster, was a beautiful specimen and > >bitches Coast to Coast were bred to him -- unfortunately, he was also > >highly aggressive and even today you see his influence as there are major > >aggression problems in Cockers. I do not know either of the three dogs you > >mention (they were way before my time in dogs here in the USA) but with the > >hip problems in German Shepherds and on hearing about > > > the policy of the Golden Club Magazine editors from Terrie, I am > >surprised to see that from 1970 to date neither dog is listed on the OFA > >website. One wonders what other major impact these dogs made on their > >respective breeds. Without health in these highly (presumably) bred dogs, > >you have nothing. > > > > > > Anne > > > > > > Peggy Mickelson wrote: > > > > > > > Gee, this catching up is making me post a lot.... > > > > > > > > When we speak of influential dogs, it is well to keep in mind that > >some dogs who could have and should have been influential did not become so > >because they belonged to people who may have been disliked, or to people > >who did not accept all comers for breeding, and therefore did not get used > >much. This happens more here in the US (and maybe in Canada) than in other > >countries, where it seems breeders have a better sense of what is > >important. I've known bitches to be sent to dogs when > > > > their owners just about hated one another...but not in this country. > >Here, often it is who the owner is that determines whether a dog is used > >often enough to have an effect on the breed...and I'm not just speaking of > >Cavaliers here. Also, here in the US, there are always the people who rush > >to breed to a dog imported from a famous kennel overseas, sometimes without > >even seeing the dog or his pedigree. > > > > It is easy for a dog to have an influence on a breed when he is > >used 30 or 40 times a year, or even just used a dozen times by the same > >owner who makes sure that the majority of the get are shown to their > >titles. This ensures that a dog will appear in dozens of pedigrees as time > >goes on. One can only hope that the dogs so used will be a good influence, > >not just an influence. > > > > Over the years I've been involved in this sport, three dogs come > >to mind as having had a MAJOR impact on their breeds...changing the look of > >the breed entirely. They were the German Shepherd, CH Lance of Fran-Jo, > >the Golden, CH Cummings Gold-Rush Charlie, and the Smooth Fox Terrier, CH > >Ttarb the Brat. Brat was an import from Tasmania (we bow again to our > >friends down under)...the other dogs were American Bred. I don't think we > >will see anything like those dogs in > > > > Cavaliers...those three STAMPED their offspring unmistakably and > >literally changed their breeds. That's what I call having an > >influence........ > > > > Peggy > > > > > > > > ========================================================= > > > > "Magic Commands": > > > > to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > > > > to start it up gain click here: > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > > > > > > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. > > > > Search the Archives... > >http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > > > > > > > > All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 1999 by its original > >author. > > > > > > ========================================================= > > > "Magic Commands": > > > to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > > > to start it up gain click here: > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > > > > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. > > > Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > > > > > > All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 1999 by its original author. > > > >========================================================= > >"Magic Commands": > >to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: > >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > >to start it up gain click here: > >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. > >Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > > > >All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 1999 by its original author. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Join the worldís largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com > > ========================================================= > "Magic Commands": > to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > to start it up gain click here: > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. > Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > > All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 1999 by its original author. ========================================================= "Magic Commands": to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL to start it up gain click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. 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