On Tue, Dec 21, 2004 at 11:43:14AM +0800, Niclas Hedhman wrote: > On Tuesday 21 December 2004 11:19, Stephen McConnell wrote: > > Greg holds to the > > opinion that the appointed Chair is the PMC and that the members are > > simply an artificial construct. > > Before anyone is requesting the quote where Steve get that notion from; > http://www.apache.org/~niclas/irc/2004-05-15.022554.txt > > which is an IRC session regarding the fork/transfer/something of Phoenix to > James, via an SVN import into Avalon's SVN space. Everyone is aware that this > IRC session is logged and available to the public (before people hammer for > that.). > > Following quotes from Greg Stein (and one McConnell); > (12:10:11) gstein: mcconnell: aaron *is* the PMC > ((12:46:05) gstein: the members of the PMC is an artificial construct created > by the Chair > 12:48:15) gstein: mcconnell: the board expects a PMC to operate in a > consensus > fashion, > (12:48:38) gstein: but when a PMC *cannot* operate in a consensus fashion, > then the Board leaves it to the Chair to figure out the right solution. > (12:52:47) gstein: if Aaron wants to ask the PMC, then he can. > (12:57:17) mcconnell: then don't ask aaron for an opinion because aaron has > not talked with his PMC MEMBERS > (12:57:29) gstein: mcconnell: doesn't matter to me. that's up to him. > > > In my personal opinion that also seems to suggest that committer and/or PMC > vetoes are also of no interest. The PMC Chair is an ultimate decision maker > (at least in the view of Greg), who from time to time decides how to deal > with disagreements.
You lost a lot of context there. The main thing: I was speaking from the position of the Board/Director/Chairman. Doesn't matter to me what is "on the other side of Aaron". From the Board's standpoint, it's all about Aaron. And yes, the Chair defines the rules/procedures. And when they fail to keep the project and community on track, then the Chair can change the rules. Simple as that. The Chair is an officer of the corporation in charge of some of our assets and in charge of the community which cares for those assets. We expect that officer to look out for the best interests of the ASF. And if that requires a hard call, then so be it. We *expect* a consensus-based approach, but when that doesn't work or it fails in some way, then we *expect* that the Chair will solve it. If a Chair runs rampantly against either of those expectations, then the Board will deal with it. That certainly wasn't the case here. Aaron did well, and I fully support his actions, both personally as a developer and an ASF Member, and also as a Director of the Board and Chairman of the ASF. There have certainly been insinuations in this thread and others that my positions or stances are "part of the problem." You're certainly entitled to that point of view, but I'm similarly confident that I have been acting in the best interests of the ASF in this matter, and that I have the support of the Membership. I may not have unanimous support, and I certainly don't in all matters, but in this regard, I feel pretty good that I've been representing the Members (and, thus, the ASF) properly. Cheers, -g -- Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]