On Friday, March 07, 2014 13:44:47 Omar Rassi wrote: > I will summarize my points as I won't be able to make the board meeting or > this Tuesday's meeting as I'll be blowing stuff up with C4 and det cord > that day: > > * There isnt now nor has ever been a pattern of substance abuse at Synhak. > Late night hackers are not being solicited by people looking to buy drugs > or alcohol. The community has regulated itself on this matter. If you're > concerned about another person, go and talk to them about it. > > * If the concern is safety, how does this make us more safe and less > liable? There are already liability waivers, and safety classes REQUIRED > before you can use the machine shop. I'm sure the safety class covers usage > while under the influence. > > * If things do get out of hand on a day, the Akron police downtown station > is .4 miles away, WALKING DISTANCE! All this stuff is already against the > law and so far, Synhak is known as a law abiding organization. > > * If we're concerned about illicit drugs and alcohol abuse to formulate > policy, then lets go the extra mile, we need an acceptable use policy to > get on the computers and internet while at the space since copyright > infringement is also illegal and we need ensure Synhak isn't liable for a > visitor who downloads a song on our computer and internet connection. > > * Lastly, if the membership decides that there should be a written policy, > that policy must be written by a lawyer and then voted in, if the intent is > to protect the organization then it should be done by a legal expert. For > that matter, if legal protection is needed, we should keep a lawyer on a > retainer for consultation.
its happening http://i.imgur.com/oVyfzv2.png > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Tomm Smith <[email protected]> wrote: > > Torrie, > > No worries. As I am sure the feeling is mutually perceived. The topic is > > sort of foundational to a collectivists community so the heat of emotion > > is > > bound to arise. > > > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:10 PM, Tomm Smith <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Torrie, > >> I understand maintaining the spirit of what the space is and what the > >> root desire of the gathering is. However, being a legal establishment, > >> one > >> must abide legal stipulations to ensure that possible neglected corners > >> of > >> circumstance do not bring a judicial situation that cripples the over all > >> community. Legal professionalism and personal hackerdom can co-exist in > >> parallel and have no breaks in linearity. The legal paper work and > >> guidelines will only establish a certain order of conduct that has weight > >> communally, and legal coverage excluding the establishment from any > >> mindless fools wrecking the place. Granted said guidelines are not hoops > >> and boundaries causing a communistic totalitarian sort of community. In > >> short, legal hackerdom does not last very long. > >> > >> > >> Omar, > >> I think the primary focus of the introduction of the rules and > >> regulations is to be strictly a paperwork thing to have sway in court, > >> *GIVEN* a situation should arise. I could be wrong on this, it is simply > >> my > >> take of the primary reason for introducing such proposals. > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:52 PM, Torrie Fischer <[email protected] > >> > >> > wrote: > >>> > If its decided that we must have a drug and alcohol policy, > >>> > >>> Pushing through a board vote without membership discussion doesn't mean > >>> "it is > >>> decided", FWIW. > >>> > >>> On Friday, March 07, 2014 12:43:32 Omar Rassi wrote: > >>> > Is Synhak on trial for an incident that we now need to defend > >>> > ourselves > >>> > with policy and paperwork? If its decided that we must have a drug and > >>> > alcohol policy, then it should be written by a lawyer and not by us > >>> > >>> (unless > >>> > >>> > a member here has a law degree). > >>> > > >>> > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Omar Rassi <[email protected]> > >>> > >>> wrote: > >>> > > How has Synhak supported drug use? Alcohol is in the fridge and only > >>> > > adults consume it. The alcohol is brought in by adults with their > >>> > > own > >>> > > money, not one dime of funds from Synhak's coffers has gone to > >>> > >>> alcohol. > >>> > >>> > > Beer brewing is one our supported hacking activities, do we now need > >>> > >>> to > >>> > >>> > > have rules on that because people are getting out of control? > >>> > > > >>> > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Justin Herman <[email protected]> > >>> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >> Omar, > >>> > >> > >>> > >> Yes the restaurant can be liable IF it can be proven that the > >>> > >>> restaurant > >>> > >>> > >> supported this activity. The issue becomes how good is our defense. > >>> > >> > >>> > >> Justin > >>> > >> > >>> > >> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:34 PM, Omar Rassi <[email protected]> > >>> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> So if someone snorts coke in a restaurant bathroom, the restaurant > >>> > >>> is > >>> > >>> > >>> liable? Again, I should emphasize, I'm not against the idea, I'm > >>> > >>> just > >>> > >>> > >>> against creating more regulation when there already exists the > >>> > >>> law. It > >>> > >>> > >>> isn't any of our business what life choices people make. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:30 PM, Justin Herman <[email protected] > >>> > > >>> >wrote: > >>> > >>>> Omar, > >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> Without policy SynHak becomes compliant with legal issues in the > >>> > >>> space. > >>> > >>> > >>>> SynHak created the atmosphere for X to occur. Why? Because we > >>> > >>> wanted to > >>> > >>> > >>>> not > >>> > >>>> have rules is not valid legal defense. ESP since it has now been > >>> > >>>> brought up.>>>> > >>> > >>>> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Omar Rassi > >>> > >>> <[email protected]>wrote: > >>> > >>>>> Personally, I'm not interested in policing the space, I don't > >>> > >>> come > >>> > >>> > >>>>> there to keep on eye on other members and visitors. The law > >>> > >>> doesn't > >>> > >>> > >>>>> disappear when you walk through the doors so I'm wondering why > >>> > >>> the > >>> > >>> > >>>>> organizing needs to apply more paperwork and wording on the > >>> > >>> subject. > >>> > >>> > >>>>> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Torrie Fischer < > >>> > >>>>> > >>> > >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>>>>> On Friday, March 07, 2014 12:20:05 Omar Rassi wrote: > >>> > >>>>>> > I'm taking this to mean that the liability waiver is not > >>> > >>> enough > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> anymore. > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > Did something happen at the space recently? I'm not exactly > >>> > >>> against > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> this > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > idea but so far the majority of people that come to the space > >>> > >>> and > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > participate have been adults of sound mind. Has this gotten > >>> > >>> so out > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> of hand > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > that people are no longer able to look out for eachother or > >>> > >>>>>> > restrain > >>> > >>>>>> > themselves so Synhak Inc. needs to step in and become big > >>> > >>> brother? > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> Yeah, thats my concern. > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> I thought we were trying to stay away from pre-emptive rules > >>> > >>> and were > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> capable > >>> > >>>>>> of policing ourselves like adults, or having in person > >>> > >>> conversations > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> to > >>> > >>>>>> address issues instead of slyly bringing up board vote topics > >>> > >>> that > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> apply to > >>> > >>>>>> the whole membership three days before board meetings. > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> I think we need a bylaw amendment that the agenda for a board > >>> > >>> meeting > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> must be > >>> > >>>>>> issued in full with any announcement. > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> Am I allowed to bring issues up minutes before the board > >>> > >>> meeting? an > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> hour into > >>> > >>>>>> it? > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> I think I'll do that. I'll propose that we stop coddling the > >>> > >>>>>> community. > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:10 PM, Justin Herman < > >>> > >>> [email protected]> > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> wrote: > >>> > >>>>>> > > I think we need to set the option for you to be excused for > >>> > >>> the > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> day with > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > the possibility of having membership terminated or banned > >>> > >>> for > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > repeat/egregious behavior. Someone unwilling to cooperate > >>> > >>>>>> > > to > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> remove and > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > mitigate the issue and safety is of concern the police > >>> > >>> should be > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> called. > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > I see a drug and alcohol policy as important as our safety > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> requirements as > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > it put everyone at risk. Not only can SynHak be held liable > >>> > >>> but > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> the > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > members > >>> > >>>>>> > > and board who allow it to continue can be held liable. > >>> > >>> Safety is > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> of > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > concern > >>> > >>>>>> > > as someone could personally feel they are alright to > >>> > >>>>>> > > operate > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> machinery but > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > miss judge they capacity. > >>> > >>>>>> > > > >>> > >>>>>> > > These are awful concerns and no one likes to think about > >>> > >>> someone > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> getting > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > hurt BUT without a policy SynHak can't have a leg to stand > >>> > >>> on. > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Seeley, Tim (PSA-Akron) < > >>> > >>>>>> > > > >>> > >>>>>> > > [email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>>>>> > >> It might need to say something about what the adult > >>> > >>>>>> > >> alcohol > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> permitted > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> behavior is. > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> V/R > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Tim Seeley > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> -----Original Message----- > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> From: [email protected] [mailto: > >>> > >>>>>> [email protected]] On > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Behalf Of Devin Wolfe > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 11:41 AM > >>> > >>>>>> > >> To: [email protected] > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Subject: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Hello all, > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Up until now there has been no formal drug policy at > >>> > >>> synhak. But > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> with > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> several complaints and concerns raised recently I feel it > >>> > >>> is > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> time we > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> implement one. As a corporation we jeopardise ourselves if > >>> > >>> we > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> just turn a > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> blind eye. Plus working around dangerous tools while under > >>> > >>> the > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> influence > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> is > >>> > >>>>>> > >> a liability. > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Here is the wording I plan on submitting to the board: > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> SYNHAK INC. will not condone, endorse, or allow the use of > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> illegal drugs > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> or related illegal activities including but not limited to > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> illegal drug > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> use, possession, sale, manufacturing, transfer, providing > >>> > >>> drugs > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> or > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> alcohol > >>> > >>>>>> > >> to a minor, or consumption of drugs or alcohol by a minor, > >>> > >>> as > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> defined and > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> stated in the Ohio Revised Code, any laws or set of laws > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> pertaining to > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> any > >>> > >>>>>> > >> location where SYNHAK INC. is at that time conducting > >>> > >>> business. > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> This > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> pertains but is not limited to agents, representatives, > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> volunteers, > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> members, nonmembers, employees, and contractors. > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> I would like the hear everyone's opinion on this. Also do > >>> > >>> we > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> need an > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> explicit procedure for discipline or removal if needed? > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Please do not accuse, slander, or otherwise make this a > >>> > >>> personal > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> matter. > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Keep names out of it. > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> In excellence, > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Devin Wolfe > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Sent with AquaMail for Android > >>> > >>>>>> > >> http://www.aqua-mail.com > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Discuss mailing list > >>> > >>>>>> > >> [email protected] > >>> > >>>>>> > >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > >>> > >>>>>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Discuss mailing list > >>> > >>>>>> > >> [email protected] > >>> > >>>>>> > >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > >>> > >>>>>> > > > >>> > >>>>>> > > _______________________________________________ > >>> > >>>>>> > > Discuss mailing list > >>> > >>>>>> > > [email protected] > >>> > >>>>>> > > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > >>> > >>>>>> > >>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>> > >>>>>> Discuss mailing list > >>> > >>>>>> [email protected] > >>> > >>>>>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > >>> > >>>>> > >>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>> > >>>>> Discuss mailing list > >>> > >>>>> [email protected] > >>> > >>>>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > >>> > >>>> > >>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>> > >>>> Discuss mailing list > >>> > >>>> [email protected] > >>> > >>>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> > >>> Discuss mailing list > >>> > >>> [email protected] > >>> > >>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > >>> > >> > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >>> > >> Discuss mailing list > >>> > >> [email protected] > >>> > >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Discuss mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > >> > >> -- > >> > >> Sincerely, Tomm Smith > >> God bless > > > > -- > > > > Sincerely, Tomm Smith > > God bless > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Discuss mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list [email protected] https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
