Torrie, I understand maintaining the spirit of what the space is and what the root desire of the gathering is. However, being a legal establishment, one must abide legal stipulations to ensure that possible neglected corners of circumstance do not bring a judicial situation that cripples the over all community. Legal professionalism and personal hackerdom can co-exist in parallel and have no breaks in linearity. The legal paper work and guidelines will only establish a certain order of conduct that has weight communally, and legal coverage excluding the establishment from any mindless fools wrecking the place. Granted said guidelines are not hoops and boundaries causing a communistic totalitarian sort of community. In short, legal hackerdom does not last very long.
Omar, I think the primary focus of the introduction of the rules and regulations is to be strictly a paperwork thing to have sway in court, *GIVEN* a situation should arise. I could be wrong on this, it is simply my take of the primary reason for introducing such proposals. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:52 PM, Torrie Fischer <[email protected]>wrote: > > If its decided that we must have a drug and alcohol policy, > > Pushing through a board vote without membership discussion doesn't mean > "it is > decided", FWIW. > > On Friday, March 07, 2014 12:43:32 Omar Rassi wrote: > > Is Synhak on trial for an incident that we now need to defend ourselves > > with policy and paperwork? If its decided that we must have a drug and > > alcohol policy, then it should be written by a lawyer and not by us > (unless > > a member here has a law degree). > > > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Omar Rassi <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > How has Synhak supported drug use? Alcohol is in the fridge and only > > > adults consume it. The alcohol is brought in by adults with their own > > > money, not one dime of funds from Synhak's coffers has gone to alcohol. > > > Beer brewing is one our supported hacking activities, do we now need to > > > have rules on that because people are getting out of control? > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Justin Herman <[email protected]> > wrote: > > >> Omar, > > >> > > >> Yes the restaurant can be liable IF it can be proven that the > restaurant > > >> supported this activity. The issue becomes how good is our defense. > > >> > > >> Justin > > >> > > >> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:34 PM, Omar Rassi <[email protected]> > wrote: > > >>> So if someone snorts coke in a restaurant bathroom, the restaurant is > > >>> liable? Again, I should emphasize, I'm not against the idea, I'm just > > >>> against creating more regulation when there already exists the law. > It > > >>> isn't any of our business what life choices people make. > > >>> > > >>> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:30 PM, Justin Herman <[email protected] > >wrote: > > >>>> Omar, > > >>>> > > >>>> Without policy SynHak becomes compliant with legal issues in the > space. > > >>>> SynHak created the atmosphere for X to occur. Why? Because we > wanted to > > >>>> not > > >>>> have rules is not valid legal defense. ESP since it has now been > > >>>> brought up.>>>> > > >>>> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Omar Rassi > <[email protected]>wrote: > > >>>>> Personally, I'm not interested in policing the space, I don't come > > >>>>> there to keep on eye on other members and visitors. The law doesn't > > >>>>> disappear when you walk through the doors so I'm wondering why the > > >>>>> organizing needs to apply more paperwork and wording on the > subject. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Torrie Fischer < > > >>>>> > > >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: > > >>>>>> On Friday, March 07, 2014 12:20:05 Omar Rassi wrote: > > >>>>>> > I'm taking this to mean that the liability waiver is not enough > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> anymore. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > Did something happen at the space recently? I'm not exactly > against > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> this > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > idea but so far the majority of people that come to the space > and > > >>>>>> > participate have been adults of sound mind. Has this gotten so > out > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> of hand > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > that people are no longer able to look out for eachother or > > >>>>>> > restrain > > >>>>>> > themselves so Synhak Inc. needs to step in and become big > brother? > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Yeah, thats my concern. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> I thought we were trying to stay away from pre-emptive rules and > were > > >>>>>> capable > > >>>>>> of policing ourselves like adults, or having in person > conversations > > >>>>>> to > > >>>>>> address issues instead of slyly bringing up board vote topics that > > >>>>>> apply to > > >>>>>> the whole membership three days before board meetings. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> I think we need a bylaw amendment that the agenda for a board > meeting > > >>>>>> must be > > >>>>>> issued in full with any announcement. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Am I allowed to bring issues up minutes before the board meeting? > an > > >>>>>> hour into > > >>>>>> it? > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> I think I'll do that. I'll propose that we stop coddling the > > >>>>>> community. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:10 PM, Justin Herman < > [email protected]> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>> > > I think we need to set the option for you to be excused for > the > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> day with > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > the possibility of having membership terminated or banned for > > >>>>>> > > repeat/egregious behavior. Someone unwilling to cooperate to > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> remove and > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > mitigate the issue and safety is of concern the police should > be > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> called. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > I see a drug and alcohol policy as important as our safety > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> requirements as > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > it put everyone at risk. Not only can SynHak be held liable > but > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> the > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > members > > >>>>>> > > and board who allow it to continue can be held liable. Safety > is > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> of > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > concern > > >>>>>> > > as someone could personally feel they are alright to operate > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> machinery but > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > miss judge they capacity. > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > These are awful concerns and no one likes to think about > someone > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> getting > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > hurt BUT without a policy SynHak can't have a leg to stand on. > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Seeley, Tim (PSA-Akron) < > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > [email protected]> wrote: > > >>>>>> > >> It might need to say something about what the adult alcohol > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> permitted > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > >> behavior is. > > >>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>> > >> V/R > > >>>>>> > >> Tim Seeley > > >>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>> > >> -----Original Message----- > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > >> From: [email protected] [mailto: > > >>>>>> [email protected]] On > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > >> Behalf Of Devin Wolfe > > >>>>>> > >> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 11:41 AM > > >>>>>> > >> To: [email protected] > > >>>>>> > >> Subject: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy > > >>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>> > >> Hello all, > > >>>>>> > >> Up until now there has been no formal drug policy at synhak. > But > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> with > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > >> several complaints and concerns raised recently I feel it is > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> time we > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > >> implement one. As a corporation we jeopardise ourselves if we > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> just turn a > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > >> blind eye. Plus working around dangerous tools while under > the > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> influence > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > >> is > > >>>>>> > >> a liability. > > >>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>> > >> Here is the wording I plan on submitting to the board: > > >>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>> > >> SYNHAK INC. will not condone, endorse, or allow the use of > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> illegal drugs > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > >> or related illegal activities including but not limited to > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> illegal drug > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > >> use, possession, sale, manufacturing, transfer, providing > drugs > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> or > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > >> alcohol > > >>>>>> > >> to a minor, or consumption of drugs or alcohol by a minor, as > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> defined and > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > >> stated in the Ohio Revised Code, any laws or set of laws > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> pertaining to > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > >> any > > >>>>>> > >> location where SYNHAK INC. is at that time conducting > business. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> This > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > >> pertains but is not limited to agents, representatives, > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> volunteers, > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > >> members, nonmembers, employees, and contractors. > > >>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>> > >> I would like the hear everyone's opinion on this. Also do we > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> need an > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > >> explicit procedure for discipline or removal if needed? > > >>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>> > >> Please do not accuse, slander, or otherwise make this a > personal > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> matter. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > >> Keep names out of it. > > >>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>> > >> In excellence, > > >>>>>> > >> Devin Wolfe > > >>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>> > >> Sent with AquaMail for Android > > >>>>>> > >> http://www.aqua-mail.com > > >>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>> > >> > > >>>>>> > >> _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>> > >> Discuss mailing list > > >>>>>> > >> [email protected] > > >>>>>> > >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > >>>>>> > >> _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>> > >> Discuss mailing list > > >>>>>> > >> [email protected] > > >>>>>> > >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>> > > Discuss mailing list > > >>>>>> > > [email protected] > > >>>>>> > > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>> Discuss mailing list > > >>>>>> [email protected] > > >>>>>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > >>>>> > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>>> Discuss mailing list > > >>>>> [email protected] > > >>>>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > >>>> > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>> Discuss mailing list > > >>>> [email protected] > > >>>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> Discuss mailing list > > >>> [email protected] > > >>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Discuss mailing list > > >> [email protected] > > >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > [email protected] > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > -- Sincerely, Tomm Smith God bless
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