Torrie, No worries. As I am sure the feeling is mutually perceived. The topic is sort of foundational to a collectivists community so the heat of emotion is bound to arise.
On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:10 PM, Tomm Smith <[email protected]> wrote: > Torrie, > I understand maintaining the spirit of what the space is and what the root > desire of the gathering is. However, being a legal establishment, one must > abide legal stipulations to ensure that possible neglected corners of > circumstance do not bring a judicial situation that cripples the over all > community. Legal professionalism and personal hackerdom can co-exist in > parallel and have no breaks in linearity. The legal paper work and > guidelines will only establish a certain order of conduct that has weight > communally, and legal coverage excluding the establishment from any > mindless fools wrecking the place. Granted said guidelines are not hoops > and boundaries causing a communistic totalitarian sort of community. In > short, legal hackerdom does not last very long. > > > Omar, > I think the primary focus of the introduction of the rules and regulations > is to be strictly a paperwork thing to have sway in court, *GIVEN* a > situation should arise. I could be wrong on this, it is simply my take of > the primary reason for introducing such proposals. > > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:52 PM, Torrie Fischer > <[email protected]>wrote: > >> > If its decided that we must have a drug and alcohol policy, >> >> Pushing through a board vote without membership discussion doesn't mean >> "it is >> decided", FWIW. >> >> On Friday, March 07, 2014 12:43:32 Omar Rassi wrote: >> > Is Synhak on trial for an incident that we now need to defend ourselves >> > with policy and paperwork? If its decided that we must have a drug and >> > alcohol policy, then it should be written by a lawyer and not by us >> (unless >> > a member here has a law degree). >> > >> > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Omar Rassi <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > > How has Synhak supported drug use? Alcohol is in the fridge and only >> > > adults consume it. The alcohol is brought in by adults with their own >> > > money, not one dime of funds from Synhak's coffers has gone to >> alcohol. >> > > Beer brewing is one our supported hacking activities, do we now need >> to >> > > have rules on that because people are getting out of control? >> > > >> > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Justin Herman <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > >> Omar, >> > >> >> > >> Yes the restaurant can be liable IF it can be proven that the >> restaurant >> > >> supported this activity. The issue becomes how good is our defense. >> > >> >> > >> Justin >> > >> >> > >> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:34 PM, Omar Rassi <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > >>> So if someone snorts coke in a restaurant bathroom, the restaurant >> is >> > >>> liable? Again, I should emphasize, I'm not against the idea, I'm >> just >> > >>> against creating more regulation when there already exists the law. >> It >> > >>> isn't any of our business what life choices people make. >> > >>> >> > >>> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:30 PM, Justin Herman <[email protected] >> >wrote: >> > >>>> Omar, >> > >>>> >> > >>>> Without policy SynHak becomes compliant with legal issues in the >> space. >> > >>>> SynHak created the atmosphere for X to occur. Why? Because we >> wanted to >> > >>>> not >> > >>>> have rules is not valid legal defense. ESP since it has now been >> > >>>> brought up.>>>> >> > >>>> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Omar Rassi >> <[email protected]>wrote: >> > >>>>> Personally, I'm not interested in policing the space, I don't come >> > >>>>> there to keep on eye on other members and visitors. The law >> doesn't >> > >>>>> disappear when you walk through the doors so I'm wondering why the >> > >>>>> organizing needs to apply more paperwork and wording on the >> subject. >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Torrie Fischer < >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >> > >>>>>> On Friday, March 07, 2014 12:20:05 Omar Rassi wrote: >> > >>>>>> > I'm taking this to mean that the liability waiver is not enough >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> anymore. >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> > Did something happen at the space recently? I'm not exactly >> against >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> this >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> > idea but so far the majority of people that come to the space >> and >> > >>>>>> > participate have been adults of sound mind. Has this gotten so >> out >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> of hand >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> > that people are no longer able to look out for eachother or >> > >>>>>> > restrain >> > >>>>>> > themselves so Synhak Inc. needs to step in and become big >> brother? >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> Yeah, thats my concern. >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> I thought we were trying to stay away from pre-emptive rules and >> were >> > >>>>>> capable >> > >>>>>> of policing ourselves like adults, or having in person >> conversations >> > >>>>>> to >> > >>>>>> address issues instead of slyly bringing up board vote topics >> that >> > >>>>>> apply to >> > >>>>>> the whole membership three days before board meetings. >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> I think we need a bylaw amendment that the agenda for a board >> meeting >> > >>>>>> must be >> > >>>>>> issued in full with any announcement. >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> Am I allowed to bring issues up minutes before the board >> meeting? an >> > >>>>>> hour into >> > >>>>>> it? >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> I think I'll do that. I'll propose that we stop coddling the >> > >>>>>> community. >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:10 PM, Justin Herman < >> [email protected]> >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> wrote: >> > >>>>>> > > I think we need to set the option for you to be excused for >> the >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> day with >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> > > the possibility of having membership terminated or banned for >> > >>>>>> > > repeat/egregious behavior. Someone unwilling to cooperate to >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> remove and >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> > > mitigate the issue and safety is of concern the police >> should be >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> called. >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> > > I see a drug and alcohol policy as important as our safety >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> requirements as >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> > > it put everyone at risk. Not only can SynHak be held liable >> but >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> the >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> > > members >> > >>>>>> > > and board who allow it to continue can be held liable. >> Safety is >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> of >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> > > concern >> > >>>>>> > > as someone could personally feel they are alright to operate >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> machinery but >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> > > miss judge they capacity. >> > >>>>>> > > >> > >>>>>> > > These are awful concerns and no one likes to think about >> someone >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> getting >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> > > hurt BUT without a policy SynHak can't have a leg to stand >> on. >> > >>>>>> > > >> > >>>>>> > > >> > >>>>>> > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Seeley, Tim (PSA-Akron) < >> > >>>>>> > > >> > >>>>>> > > [email protected]> wrote: >> > >>>>>> > >> It might need to say something about what the adult alcohol >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> permitted >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> > >> behavior is. >> > >>>>>> > >> >> > >>>>>> > >> V/R >> > >>>>>> > >> Tim Seeley >> > >>>>>> > >> >> > >>>>>> > >> -----Original Message----- >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> > >> From: [email protected] [mailto: >> > >>>>>> [email protected]] On >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> > >> Behalf Of Devin Wolfe >> > >>>>>> > >> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 11:41 AM >> > >>>>>> > >> To: [email protected] >> > >>>>>> > >> Subject: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy >> > >>>>>> > >> >> > >>>>>> > >> Hello all, >> > >>>>>> > >> Up until now there has been no formal drug policy at >> synhak. But >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> with >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> > >> several complaints and concerns raised recently I feel it is >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> time we >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> > >> implement one. As a corporation we jeopardise ourselves if >> we >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> just turn a >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> > >> blind eye. Plus working around dangerous tools while under >> the >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> influence >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> > >> is >> > >>>>>> > >> a liability. >> > >>>>>> > >> >> > >>>>>> > >> Here is the wording I plan on submitting to the board: >> > >>>>>> > >> >> > >>>>>> > >> SYNHAK INC. will not condone, endorse, or allow the use of >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> illegal drugs >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> > >> or related illegal activities including but not limited to >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> illegal drug >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> > >> use, possession, sale, manufacturing, transfer, providing >> drugs >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> or >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> > >> alcohol >> > >>>>>> > >> to a minor, or consumption of drugs or alcohol by a minor, >> as >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> defined and >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> > >> stated in the Ohio Revised Code, any laws or set of laws >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> pertaining to >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> > >> any >> > >>>>>> > >> location where SYNHAK INC. is at that time conducting >> business. >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> This >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> > >> pertains but is not limited to agents, representatives, >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> volunteers, >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> > >> members, nonmembers, employees, and contractors. >> > >>>>>> > >> >> > >>>>>> > >> >> > >>>>>> > >> I would like the hear everyone's opinion on this. Also do we >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> need an >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> > >> explicit procedure for discipline or removal if needed? >> > >>>>>> > >> >> > >>>>>> > >> Please do not accuse, slander, or otherwise make this a >> personal >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> matter. >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> > >> Keep names out of it. >> > >>>>>> > >> >> > >>>>>> > >> In excellence, >> > >>>>>> > >> Devin Wolfe >> > >>>>>> > >> >> > >>>>>> > >> Sent with AquaMail for Android >> > >>>>>> > >> http://www.aqua-mail.com >> > >>>>>> > >> >> > >>>>>> > >> >> > >>>>>> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > >>>>>> > >> Discuss mailing list >> > >>>>>> > >> [email protected] >> > >>>>>> > >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> > >>>>>> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > >>>>>> > >> Discuss mailing list >> > >>>>>> > >> [email protected] >> > >>>>>> > >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> > >>>>>> > > >> > >>>>>> > > _______________________________________________ >> > >>>>>> > > Discuss mailing list >> > >>>>>> > > [email protected] >> > >>>>>> > > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> > >>>>>> >> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >> > >>>>>> Discuss mailing list >> > >>>>>> [email protected] >> > >>>>>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> > >>>>> >> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> > >>>>> Discuss mailing list >> > >>>>> [email protected] >> > >>>>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> > >>>> >> > >>>> _______________________________________________ >> > >>>> Discuss mailing list >> > >>>> [email protected] >> > >>>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> > >>> >> > >>> _______________________________________________ >> > >>> Discuss mailing list >> > >>> [email protected] >> > >>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> > >> >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > >> Discuss mailing list >> > >> [email protected] >> > >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> > > > > -- > > Sincerely, Tomm Smith > God bless > -- Sincerely, Tomm Smith God bless
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