If people primarily charge at home then wouldn't most convenience stores go away?
Brandon On 12/05/2015 11:44 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: > That's great info, Tom! > > I think the convenience store aspect would remain, so just dividing > your numbers by four might be more realistic. That's still 250-300 or > so miles per day EV equivalent. Amazing! > > It would be good to corroborate this data. I'm hoping that this store > is an anomaly. > > Peri > > ------ Original Message ------ > From: "Tom Keenan" <[email protected]> > To: "Peri Hartman" <[email protected]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion > List" <[email protected]> > Sent: 05-Dec-15 9:36:12 AM > Subject: Re: [EVDL] UK grid too weak for 34M EVs (not when we stop > pumping gas too!) > >> About two years ago, I asked a gas station/convenience store owner >> what the normal amounts of electricity they used were, and he said >> about 350 kWh in summer, and 250 kWh in the winter. (Natural gas >> heating). I asked if this was for an entire month, and me said no, >> that was the amount used for a single day! He showed his power bill >> as proof. I was quite surprised, as my house uses roughly that >> amount per month. >> >> Granted, most of the energy was used for beverage and food coolers >> (about a dozen) and air conditioning. He estimated that the eight >> gasoline and two diesel dispensers and lift pumps was about a quarter >> of the total energy use for his station. >> >> If one considers this a typical store/gas station, and it serves >> perhaps 2,000 vehicles a day, each vehicle's share of energy is >> between 125 and 175 Watt-hours >> (0.125 to 0.175 kWh) when they fuel up. This takes into account >> their 'use' of powering the store, whether they buy soda and >> cigarettes or not. >> >> Obviously, energy used at a gas station is only a small part of the >> equation- extraction, transport, and refining of crude oil use vastly >> more amounts of energy in the whole petroleum cycle. The total >> energy used per vehicle would need to include that power used as well. >> >> Thought of another way, if the station were to go away (due to >> customer attrition) there would be an additional 250 to 350 kWh >> available per day for the grid to power plug-in vehicles. At 250 >> Wh/mi, that would translate to 1,000 to 1,400 miles per day of >> electric driving. Or enough miles/power to satisfy about 25 to 35 EVs >> doing forty-mile (round trip) commutes. The gas station attrition >> model would appear to need to eliminate about 2,000 ICE vehicles to >> shut down one gas station. >> >> Feel free to check my math - done on an iPhone... >> >> Tom Keenan >> >>> On Dec 4, 2015, at 9:08 AM, Peri Hartman via EV <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> That would be interesting information. I'll take a stab at an >>> answer, based on this EIA graph: >>> >>> http://www.eia.gov/beta/MER/index.cfm?tbl=T02.01#/?f=A&start=200001 >>> >>> Overall, it shows that commercial uses about 80% the amount of >>> residential (this is a visual interpretation). The figure, from >>> EIA, for residential is 11MwH per year. So, let's say the average >>> commercial location uses 8.8MwH per year. >>> >>> https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=97&t=3 >>> >>> Now for the EVs: If the average EV uses 300wH = .3KwH (including >>> accessories, charging losses, etc.) per mile and the average driver >>> goes 20000 miles per year, that's 6MwH of charging per year. >>> >>> So, based on averages and some EV assumptions, the gas station uses >>> enough electricy to charge somewhere between 1 and 2 EVs. >>> >>> Peri >>> >>> ------ Original Message ------ >>> From: "Robert Bruninga via EV" <[email protected]> >>> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]> >>> Sent: 04-Dec-15 6:47:23 AM >>> Subject: [EVDL] UK grid too weak for 34M EVs (not when we stop >>> pumping gas too!) >>> >>>>> : MP Amber Rudd sez the UK grid too weak for 34M EVs >>>>> BRITAIN’S electric car revolution could trigger blackouts by >>>>> overloading >>>>> our power network, senior Tories fear. >>>> >>>> Typical right wing ignorance. >>>> >>>> What happens when 50% of cars are EV's. Then only 50% of the gas >>>> stations >>>> remain operating. How much ELECTRICITY does a gas station >>>> consume???? My >>>> wild a$$ guess is maybe the same as what it takes to charge 50 >>>> EV's. Now >>>> add up all the ELECTRIC savings by closing all those gas stations, >>>> and >>>> turning off half the gasoline pipelines, and half of the gasoline >>>> distribution system, and turning off HALF of all the electricity >>>> consumed >>>> pumping gas ouit of the ground, etc, and I bet it’s a WASH! >>>> >>>> Tonight I'm going to drop by my neighborhood gas station and see >>>> if the >>>> owner will tell me his electric bill and even better, if he will >>>> tell me how >>>> many cars he serves. I DOUBT he will tell me anything about the >>>> number of >>>> cars and the amount of gas since he is in EXTREME competition with >>>> the >>>> statinon across the road, but maybe he will reveal the electric bill. >>>> >>>> But we need this number. GO get your local number and lets >>>> compare notes. >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> --------------- >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
