If people primarily charge at home then wouldn't most convenience stores
go away?

Brandon

On 12/05/2015 11:44 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
> That's great info, Tom!
>
> I think the convenience store aspect would remain, so just dividing
> your numbers by four might be more realistic.  That's still 250-300 or
> so miles per day EV equivalent.  Amazing!
>
> It would be good to corroborate this data.  I'm hoping that this store
> is an anomaly.
>
> Peri
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Tom Keenan" <[email protected]>
> To: "Peri Hartman" <[email protected]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion
> List" <[email protected]>
> Sent: 05-Dec-15 9:36:12 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] UK grid too weak for 34M EVs (not when we stop
> pumping gas too!)
>
>> About two years ago, I asked a gas station/convenience store owner
>> what the normal amounts of electricity they used were, and he said
>> about 350 kWh in summer, and 250 kWh in the winter. (Natural gas
>> heating). I asked if this was for an entire month, and me said no,
>> that was the amount used for a single day!  He showed his power bill
>> as proof.  I was quite surprised, as my house uses roughly that
>> amount per month.
>>
>> Granted, most of the energy was used for beverage and food coolers
>> (about a dozen) and air conditioning. He estimated that the eight
>> gasoline and two diesel dispensers and lift pumps was about a quarter
>> of the total energy use for his station.
>>
>> If one considers this a typical store/gas station, and it serves
>> perhaps 2,000 vehicles a day, each vehicle's share of energy is
>> between 125 and 175 Watt-hours
>> (0.125 to 0.175 kWh) when they fuel up.  This takes into account
>> their 'use' of powering the store, whether they buy soda and
>> cigarettes or not.
>>
>> Obviously, energy used at a gas station is only a small part of the
>> equation- extraction, transport, and refining of crude oil use vastly
>> more amounts of energy in the whole petroleum cycle.  The total
>> energy used per vehicle would need to include that power used as well.
>>
>> Thought of another way, if the station were to go away (due to
>> customer attrition)  there would be an additional 250 to 350 kWh
>> available per day for the grid to power plug-in vehicles.  At 250
>> Wh/mi, that would translate to 1,000 to 1,400 miles per day of
>> electric driving. Or enough miles/power to satisfy about 25 to 35 EVs
>> doing forty-mile (round trip) commutes.   The gas station attrition
>> model would appear to need to eliminate about 2,000 ICE vehicles to
>> shut down one gas station.
>>
>> Feel free to check my math - done on an iPhone...
>>
>> Tom Keenan
>>
>>>  On Dec 4, 2015, at 9:08 AM, Peri Hartman via EV <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  That would be interesting information.  I'll take a stab at an
>>> answer, based on this EIA graph:
>>>
>>>  http://www.eia.gov/beta/MER/index.cfm?tbl=T02.01#/?f=A&start=200001
>>>
>>>  Overall, it shows that commercial uses about 80% the amount of
>>> residential (this is a visual interpretation).  The figure, from
>>> EIA, for residential is 11MwH per year.  So, let's say the average
>>> commercial location uses 8.8MwH per year.
>>>
>>>  https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=97&t=3
>>>
>>>  Now for the EVs:  If the average EV uses 300wH = .3KwH (including
>>> accessories, charging losses, etc.) per mile and the average driver
>>> goes 20000 miles per year, that's 6MwH of charging per year.
>>>
>>>  So, based on averages and some EV assumptions, the gas station uses
>>> enough electricy to charge somewhere between 1 and 2 EVs.
>>>
>>>  Peri
>>>
>>>  ------ Original Message ------
>>>  From: "Robert Bruninga via EV" <[email protected]>
>>>  To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
>>>  Sent: 04-Dec-15 6:47:23 AM
>>>  Subject: [EVDL] UK grid too weak for 34M EVs (not when we stop
>>> pumping gas too!)
>>>
>>>>>  : MP Amber Rudd sez the UK grid too weak for 34M EVs
>>>>>  BRITAIN’S electric car revolution could trigger blackouts by
>>>>> overloading
>>>>>  our power network, senior Tories fear.
>>>>
>>>>  Typical right wing ignorance.
>>>>
>>>>  What happens when 50% of cars are EV's.  Then only 50% of the gas
>>>> stations
>>>>  remain operating.  How much ELECTRICITY does a gas station
>>>> consume????  My
>>>>  wild a$$ guess is maybe the same as what it takes to charge 50
>>>> EV's.  Now
>>>>  add up all the ELECTRIC savings by closing all those gas stations,
>>>> and
>>>>  turning off half the gasoline pipelines, and half of the gasoline
>>>>  distribution system, and turning off HALF of all the electricity
>>>> consumed
>>>>  pumping gas ouit of the ground, etc, and I bet it’s a WASH!
>>>>
>>>>  Tonight I'm going to drop by my neighborhood gas station and see
>>>> if the
>>>>  owner will tell me his electric bill and even better, if he will
>>>> tell me how
>>>>  many cars he serves.  I DOUBT he will tell me anything about the
>>>> number of
>>>>  cars and the amount of gas since he is in EXTREME competition with
>>>> the
>>>>  statinon across the road, but maybe he will reveal the electric bill.
>>>>
>>>>  But we need this number.  GO get your local number and lets
>>>> compare notes.
>>>>
>>>>  Bob
>>>>  ---------------
>>>
>>
>
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