Yep - the old 'fat fingers' on the bitty keyboard. The owner said he normally gets 200 to 400 cars per day - it is a busy station. So, instead of 125 to 175 Wh per car share of the gas station power use, it works out higher, to 1.25 - 1.75 kWh per customer. Five to seven EV miles could be driven on just the electricity used by this gas station/store per ICE gasoline tank fill as a rough estimate.
As fas as convenience stores that are primarily gas stations (the customers go there to get gas, but also buy chips, soda, coffee, etc. because it is a handy impulse buy) are different than convenience stores that also sell gas (customers go primarily to get milk, newspapers, lotto, beer, cigarettes, and occasionally get gas, if they have the time and need). The price or handy accessibility of gasoline attracts some customers to the convenience store at the first sort, and the ready availability of staple items attracts some people to the gas pumps at the second, but gasoline is not the prime attractant. These secondary stores generally don't have very many gas dispensers; oftentimes only two vehicles can fill simultaneously. Gasoline is a significant part of business in the first model, and the associated convenience store would probably fold if they had no customers stopping by to get gas. If gasoline sales fell off at the second sort, the associated store would likely continue in business, at least for a while. Tom Keenan > On Dec 5, 2015, at 5:29 PM, Robert Bruninga <[email protected]> wrote: > > Where did y ou get the 2000 cars a day at the gas station? That seems huge. > That's 1 every 30 seconds solid over a 15 hour day. > > I'd believe may 200, but not 2000. > > Bob > >> On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 12:44 PM, Peri Hartman via EV <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> That's great info, Tom! >> >> I think the convenience store aspect would remain, so just dividing your >> numbers by four might be more realistic. That's still 250-300 or so miles >> per day EV equivalent. Amazing! >> >> It would be good to corroborate this data. I'm hoping that this store is an >> anomaly. >> >> Peri >> >> ------ Original Message ------ >> From: "Tom Keenan" <[email protected]> >> To: "Peri Hartman" <[email protected]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" >> <[email protected]> >> Sent: 05-Dec-15 9:36:12 AM >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] UK grid too weak for 34M EVs (not when we stop pumping >> gas too!) >> >>> About two years ago, I asked a gas station/convenience store owner what the >>> normal amounts of electricity they used were, and he said about 350 kWh in >>> summer, and 250 kWh in the winter. (Natural gas heating). I asked if this >>> was for an entire month, and me said no, that was the amount used for a >>> single day! He showed his power bill as proof. I was quite surprised, as >>> my house uses roughly that amount per month. >>> >>> Granted, most of the energy was used for beverage and food coolers (about a >>> dozen) and air conditioning. He estimated that the eight gasoline and two >>> diesel dispensers and lift pumps was about a quarter of the total energy >>> use for his station. >>> >>> If one considers this a typical store/gas station, and it serves perhaps >>> 2,000 vehicles a day, each vehicle's share of energy is between 125 and 175 >>> Watt-hours >>> (0.125 to 0.175 kWh) when they fuel up. This takes into account their >>> 'use' of powering the store, whether they buy soda and cigarettes or not. >>> >>> Obviously, energy used at a gas station is only a small part of the >>> equation- extraction, transport, and refining of crude oil use vastly more >>> amounts of energy in the whole petroleum cycle. The total energy used per >>> vehicle would need to include that power used as well. >>> >>> Thought of another way, if the station were to go away (due to customer >>> attrition) there would be an additional 250 to 350 kWh available per day >>> for the grid to power plug-in vehicles. At 250 Wh/mi, that would translate >>> to 1,000 to 1,400 miles per day of electric driving. Or enough miles/power >>> to satisfy about 25 to 35 EVs doing forty-mile (round trip) commutes. The >>> gas station attrition model would appear to need to eliminate about 2,000 >>> ICE vehicles to shut down one gas station. >>> >>> Feel free to check my math - done on an iPhone... >>> >>> Tom Keenan >>> >>>> On Dec 4, 2015, at 9:08 AM, Peri Hartman via EV <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> That would be interesting information. I'll take a stab at an answer, >>>> based on this EIA graph: >>>> >>>> http://www.eia.gov/beta/MER/index.cfm?tbl=T02.01#/?f=A&start=200001 >>>> >>>> Overall, it shows that commercial uses about 80% the amount of >>>> residential (this is a visual interpretation). The figure, from EIA, for >>>> residential is 11MwH per year. So, let's say the average commercial >>>> location uses 8.8MwH per year. >>>> >>>> https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=97&t=3 >>>> >>>> Now for the EVs: If the average EV uses 300wH = .3KwH (including >>>> accessories, charging losses, etc.) per mile and the average driver goes >>>> 20000 miles per year, that's 6MwH of charging per year. >>>> >>>> So, based on averages and some EV assumptions, the gas station uses >>>> enough electricy to charge somewhere between 1 and 2 EVs. >>>> >>>> Peri >>>> >>>> ------ Original Message ------ >>>> From: "Robert Bruninga via EV" <[email protected]> >>>> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: 04-Dec-15 6:47:23 AM >>>> Subject: [EVDL] UK grid too weak for 34M EVs (not when we stop pumping >>>> gas too!) >>>> >>>>>> : MP Amber Rudd sez the UK grid too weak for 34M EVs >>>>>> BRITAIN’S electric car revolution could trigger blackouts by overloading >>>>>> our power network, senior Tories fear. >>>>> >>>>> Typical right wing ignorance. >>>>> >>>>> What happens when 50% of cars are EV's. Then only 50% of the gas >>>>> stations >>>>> remain operating. How much ELECTRICITY does a gas station consume???? >>>>> My >>>>> wild a$$ guess is maybe the same as what it takes to charge 50 EV's. Now >>>>> add up all the ELECTRIC savings by closing all those gas stations, and >>>>> turning off half the gasoline pipelines, and half of the gasoline >>>>> distribution system, and turning off HALF of all the electricity consumed >>>>> pumping gas ouit of the ground, etc, and I bet it’s a WASH! >>>>> >>>>> Tonight I'm going to drop by my neighborhood gas station and see if the >>>>> owner will tell me his electric bill and even better, if he will tell me >>>>> how >>>>> many cars he serves. I DOUBT he will tell me anything about the number >>>>> of >>>>> cars and the amount of gas since he is in EXTREME competition with the >>>>> statinon across the road, but maybe he will reveal the electric bill. >>>>> >>>>> But we need this number. GO get your local number and lets compare >>>>> notes. >>>>> >>>>> Bob >>>>> --------------- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20151205/727b3313/attachment.htm> _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
