Where did y ou get the 2000 cars a day at the gas station?  That seems
huge.  That's 1 every 30 seconds solid over a 15 hour day.

I'd believe may 200, but not 2000.

Bob

On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 12:44 PM, Peri Hartman via EV <[email protected]>
wrote:

> That's great info, Tom!
>
> I think the convenience store aspect would remain, so just dividing your
> numbers by four might be more realistic.  That's still 250-300 or so miles
> per day EV equivalent.  Amazing!
>
> It would be good to corroborate this data.  I'm hoping that this store is
> an anomaly.
>
> Peri
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Tom Keenan" <[email protected]>
> To: "Peri Hartman" <[email protected]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion
> List" <[email protected]>
> Sent: 05-Dec-15 9:36:12 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] UK grid too weak for 34M EVs (not when we stop pumping
> gas too!)
>
> About two years ago, I asked a gas station/convenience store owner what
>> the normal amounts of electricity they used were, and he said about 350 kWh
>> in summer, and 250 kWh in the winter. (Natural gas heating). I asked if
>> this was for an entire month, and me said no, that was the amount used for
>> a single day!  He showed his power bill as proof.  I was quite surprised,
>> as my house uses roughly that amount per month.
>>
>> Granted, most of the energy was used for beverage and food coolers (about
>> a dozen) and air conditioning. He estimated that the eight gasoline and two
>> diesel dispensers and lift pumps was about a quarter of the total energy
>> use for his station.
>>
>> If one considers this a typical store/gas station, and it serves perhaps
>> 2,000 vehicles a day, each vehicle's share of energy is between 125 and 175
>> Watt-hours
>> (0.125 to 0.175 kWh) when they fuel up.  This takes into account their
>> 'use' of powering the store, whether they buy soda and cigarettes or not.
>>
>> Obviously, energy used at a gas station is only a small part of the
>> equation- extraction, transport, and refining of crude oil use vastly more
>> amounts of energy in the whole petroleum cycle.  The total energy used per
>> vehicle would need to include that power used as well.
>>
>> Thought of another way, if the station were to go away (due to customer
>> attrition)  there would be an additional 250 to 350 kWh available per day
>> for the grid to power plug-in vehicles.  At 250 Wh/mi, that would translate
>> to 1,000 to 1,400 miles per day of electric driving. Or enough miles/power
>> to satisfy about 25 to 35 EVs doing forty-mile (round trip) commutes.   The
>> gas station attrition model would appear to need to eliminate about 2,000
>> ICE vehicles to shut down one gas station.
>>
>> Feel free to check my math - done on an iPhone...
>>
>> Tom Keenan
>>
>>  On Dec 4, 2015, at 9:08 AM, Peri Hartman via EV <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  That would be interesting information.  I'll take a stab at an answer,
>>> based on this EIA graph:
>>>
>>>  http://www.eia.gov/beta/MER/index.cfm?tbl=T02.01#/?f=A&start=200001
>>>
>>>  Overall, it shows that commercial uses about 80% the amount of
>>> residential (this is a visual interpretation).  The figure, from EIA, for
>>> residential is 11MwH per year.  So, let's say the average commercial
>>> location uses 8.8MwH per year.
>>>
>>>  https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=97&t=3
>>>
>>>  Now for the EVs:  If the average EV uses 300wH = .3KwH (including
>>> accessories, charging losses, etc.) per mile and the average driver goes
>>> 20000 miles per year, that's 6MwH of charging per year.
>>>
>>>  So, based on averages and some EV assumptions, the gas station uses
>>> enough electricy to charge somewhere between 1 and 2 EVs.
>>>
>>>  Peri
>>>
>>>  ------ Original Message ------
>>>  From: "Robert Bruninga via EV" <[email protected]>
>>>  To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
>>>  Sent: 04-Dec-15 6:47:23 AM
>>>  Subject: [EVDL] UK grid too weak for 34M EVs (not when we stop pumping
>>> gas too!)
>>>
>>>  : MP Amber Rudd sez the UK grid too weak for 34M EVs
>>>>>  BRITAIN’S electric car revolution could trigger blackouts by
>>>>> overloading
>>>>>  our power network, senior Tories fear.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Typical right wing ignorance.
>>>>
>>>>  What happens when 50% of cars are EV's.  Then only 50% of the gas
>>>> stations
>>>>  remain operating.  How much ELECTRICITY does a gas station
>>>> consume????  My
>>>>  wild a$$ guess is maybe the same as what it takes to charge 50 EV's.
>>>> Now
>>>>  add up all the ELECTRIC savings by closing all those gas stations, and
>>>>  turning off half the gasoline pipelines, and half of the gasoline
>>>>  distribution system, and turning off HALF of all the electricity
>>>> consumed
>>>>  pumping gas ouit of the ground, etc, and I bet it’s a WASH!
>>>>
>>>>  Tonight I'm going to drop by my neighborhood gas station and see if the
>>>>  owner will tell me his electric bill and even better, if he will tell
>>>> me how
>>>>  many cars he serves.  I DOUBT he will tell me anything about the
>>>> number of
>>>>  cars and the amount of gas since he is in EXTREME competition with the
>>>>  statinon across the road, but maybe he will reveal the electric bill.
>>>>
>>>>  But we need this number.  GO get your local number and lets compare
>>>> notes.
>>>>
>>>>  Bob
>>>>  ---------------
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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