I am guessing that there is less brand loyalty for convenience stores than for gas stations. At the very least there will be consolidation among convenience stores. I cannot imagine the market supporting four convenience stores within a block of each other. But more importantly, these convenience stores are only convenient because people have to stop for gas. If people no longer need to stop the market will consolidate and many will go away.
https://www.google.com/maps/search/gas+stations/@33.5239679,-112.1133195,17.25z -Brandon On 12/05/2015 10:00 PM, Peri Hartman wrote: > Why would they go away? People don't go to convenience stores to buy > gas. Certainly buying gas encourages buying something inside but the > demand for convenience shopping was around long before service station > morphed into convenience stores with gas pumps. > > Peri > > ------ Original Message ------ > From: "Brandon Hines via EV" <[email protected]> > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]> > Sent: 05-Dec-15 7:22:03 PM > Subject: Re: [EVDL] UK grid too weak for 34M EVs (not when we stop > pumping gas too!) > >> If people primarily charge at home then wouldn't most convenience stores >> go away? >> >> Brandon >> >> On 12/05/2015 11:44 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: >>> That's great info, Tom! >>> >>> I think the convenience store aspect would remain, so just dividing >>> your numbers by four might be more realistic. That's still 250-300 or >>> so miles per day EV equivalent. Amazing! >>> >>> It would be good to corroborate this data. I'm hoping that this store >>> is an anomaly. >>> >>> Peri >>> >>> ------ Original Message ------ >>> From: "Tom Keenan" <[email protected]> >>> To: "Peri Hartman" <[email protected]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion >>> List" <[email protected]> >>> Sent: 05-Dec-15 9:36:12 AM >>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] UK grid too weak for 34M EVs (not when we stop >>> pumping gas too!) >>> >>>> About two years ago, I asked a gas station/convenience store owner >>>> what the normal amounts of electricity they used were, and he said >>>> about 350 kWh in summer, and 250 kWh in the winter. (Natural gas >>>> heating). I asked if this was for an entire month, and me said no, >>>> that was the amount used for a single day! He showed his power bill >>>> as proof. I was quite surprised, as my house uses roughly that >>>> amount per month. >>>> >>>> Granted, most of the energy was used for beverage and food coolers >>>> (about a dozen) and air conditioning. He estimated that the eight >>>> gasoline and two diesel dispensers and lift pumps was about a quarter >>>> of the total energy use for his station. >>>> >>>> If one considers this a typical store/gas station, and it serves >>>> perhaps 2,000 vehicles a day, each vehicle's share of energy is >>>> between 125 and 175 Watt-hours >>>> (0.125 to 0.175 kWh) when they fuel up. This takes into account >>>> their 'use' of powering the store, whether they buy soda and >>>> cigarettes or not. >>>> >>>> Obviously, energy used at a gas station is only a small part of the >>>> equation- extraction, transport, and refining of crude oil use vastly >>>> more amounts of energy in the whole petroleum cycle. The total >>>> energy used per vehicle would need to include that power used as >>>> well. >>>> >>>> Thought of another way, if the station were to go away (due to >>>> customer attrition) there would be an additional 250 to 350 kWh >>>> available per day for the grid to power plug-in vehicles. At 250 >>>> Wh/mi, that would translate to 1,000 to 1,400 miles per day of >>>> electric driving. Or enough miles/power to satisfy about 25 to 35 EVs >>>> doing forty-mile (round trip) commutes. The gas station attrition >>>> model would appear to need to eliminate about 2,000 ICE vehicles to >>>> shut down one gas station. >>>> >>>> Feel free to check my math - done on an iPhone... >>>> >>>> Tom Keenan >>>> >>>>> On Dec 4, 2015, at 9:08 AM, Peri Hartman via EV <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> That would be interesting information. I'll take a stab at an >>>>> answer, based on this EIA graph: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eia.gov/beta/MER/index.cfm?tbl=T02.01#/?f=A&start=200001 >>>>> >>>>> Overall, it shows that commercial uses about 80% the amount of >>>>> residential (this is a visual interpretation). The figure, from >>>>> EIA, for residential is 11MwH per year. So, let's say the average >>>>> commercial location uses 8.8MwH per year. >>>>> >>>>> https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=97&t=3 >>>>> >>>>> Now for the EVs: If the average EV uses 300wH = .3KwH (including >>>>> accessories, charging losses, etc.) per mile and the average driver >>>>> goes 20000 miles per year, that's 6MwH of charging per year. >>>>> >>>>> So, based on averages and some EV assumptions, the gas station uses >>>>> enough electricy to charge somewhere between 1 and 2 EVs. >>>>> >>>>> Peri >>>>> >>>>> ------ Original Message ------ >>>>> From: "Robert Bruninga via EV" <[email protected]> >>>>> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]> >>>>> Sent: 04-Dec-15 6:47:23 AM >>>>> Subject: [EVDL] UK grid too weak for 34M EVs (not when we stop >>>>> pumping gas too!) >>>>> >>>>>>> : MP Amber Rudd sez the UK grid too weak for 34M EVs >>>>>>> BRITAIN’S electric car revolution could trigger blackouts by >>>>>>> overloading >>>>>>> our power network, senior Tories fear. >>>>>> >>>>>> Typical right wing ignorance. >>>>>> >>>>>> What happens when 50% of cars are EV's. Then only 50% of the gas >>>>>> stations >>>>>> remain operating. How much ELECTRICITY does a gas station >>>>>> consume???? My >>>>>> wild a$$ guess is maybe the same as what it takes to charge 50 >>>>>> EV's. Now >>>>>> add up all the ELECTRIC savings by closing all those gas stations, >>>>>> and >>>>>> turning off half the gasoline pipelines, and half of the gasoline >>>>>> distribution system, and turning off HALF of all the electricity >>>>>> consumed >>>>>> pumping gas ouit of the ground, etc, and I bet it’s a WASH! >>>>>> >>>>>> Tonight I'm going to drop by my neighborhood gas station and see >>>>>> if the >>>>>> owner will tell me his electric bill and even better, if he will >>>>>> tell me how >>>>>> many cars he serves. I DOUBT he will tell me anything about the >>>>>> number of >>>>>> cars and the amount of gas since he is in EXTREME competition with >>>>>> the >>>>>> statinon across the road, but maybe he will reveal the electric >>>>>> bill. >>>>>> >>>>>> But we need this number. GO get your local number and lets >>>>>> compare notes. >>>>>> >>>>>> Bob >>>>>> --------------- >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >> > > _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
