That's great info, Tom!
I think the convenience store aspect would remain, so just dividing your
numbers by four might be more realistic. That's still 250-300 or so
miles per day EV equivalent. Amazing!
It would be good to corroborate this data. I'm hoping that this store
is an anomaly.
Peri
------ Original Message ------
From: "Tom Keenan" <[email protected]>
To: "Peri Hartman" <[email protected]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion
List" <[email protected]>
Sent: 05-Dec-15 9:36:12 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] UK grid too weak for 34M EVs (not when we stop
pumping gas too!)
About two years ago, I asked a gas station/convenience store owner what
the normal amounts of electricity they used were, and he said about 350
kWh in summer, and 250 kWh in the winter. (Natural gas heating). I
asked if this was for an entire month, and me said no, that was the
amount used for a single day! He showed his power bill as proof. I
was quite surprised, as my house uses roughly that amount per month.
Granted, most of the energy was used for beverage and food coolers
(about a dozen) and air conditioning. He estimated that the eight
gasoline and two diesel dispensers and lift pumps was about a quarter
of the total energy use for his station.
If one considers this a typical store/gas station, and it serves
perhaps 2,000 vehicles a day, each vehicle's share of energy is between
125 and 175 Watt-hours
(0.125 to 0.175 kWh) when they fuel up. This takes into account their
'use' of powering the store, whether they buy soda and cigarettes or
not.
Obviously, energy used at a gas station is only a small part of the
equation- extraction, transport, and refining of crude oil use vastly
more amounts of energy in the whole petroleum cycle. The total energy
used per vehicle would need to include that power used as well.
Thought of another way, if the station were to go away (due to customer
attrition) there would be an additional 250 to 350 kWh available per
day for the grid to power plug-in vehicles. At 250 Wh/mi, that would
translate to 1,000 to 1,400 miles per day of electric driving. Or
enough miles/power to satisfy about 25 to 35 EVs doing forty-mile
(round trip) commutes. The gas station attrition model would appear
to need to eliminate about 2,000 ICE vehicles to shut down one gas
station.
Feel free to check my math - done on an iPhone...
Tom Keenan
On Dec 4, 2015, at 9:08 AM, Peri Hartman via EV <[email protected]>
wrote:
That would be interesting information. I'll take a stab at an
answer, based on this EIA graph:
http://www.eia.gov/beta/MER/index.cfm?tbl=T02.01#/?f=A&start=200001
Overall, it shows that commercial uses about 80% the amount of
residential (this is a visual interpretation). The figure, from EIA,
for residential is 11MwH per year. So, let's say the average
commercial location uses 8.8MwH per year.
https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=97&t=3
Now for the EVs: If the average EV uses 300wH = .3KwH (including
accessories, charging losses, etc.) per mile and the average driver
goes 20000 miles per year, that's 6MwH of charging per year.
So, based on averages and some EV assumptions, the gas station uses
enough electricy to charge somewhere between 1 and 2 EVs.
Peri
------ Original Message ------
From: "Robert Bruninga via EV" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: 04-Dec-15 6:47:23 AM
Subject: [EVDL] UK grid too weak for 34M EVs (not when we stop
pumping gas too!)
: MP Amber Rudd sez the UK grid too weak for 34M EVs
BRITAIN’S electric car revolution could trigger blackouts by
overloading
our power network, senior Tories fear.
Typical right wing ignorance.
What happens when 50% of cars are EV's. Then only 50% of the gas
stations
remain operating. How much ELECTRICITY does a gas station
consume???? My
wild a$$ guess is maybe the same as what it takes to charge 50 EV's.
Now
add up all the ELECTRIC savings by closing all those gas stations,
and
turning off half the gasoline pipelines, and half of the gasoline
distribution system, and turning off HALF of all the electricity
consumed
pumping gas ouit of the ground, etc, and I bet it’s a WASH!
Tonight I'm going to drop by my neighborhood gas station and see if
the
owner will tell me his electric bill and even better, if he will
tell me how
many cars he serves. I DOUBT he will tell me anything about the
number of
cars and the amount of gas since he is in EXTREME competition with
the
statinon across the road, but maybe he will reveal the electric
bill.
But we need this number. GO get your local number and lets compare
notes.
Bob
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