Le 04-juin-07, à 14:10, Torgny Tholerus a écrit :
>  Bruno Marchal skrev:
> Le 01-juin-07, à 18:47, Torgny Tholerus a écrit :
> When I am tortured, my pain center in my brain will be stimulated.
> This
> will cause me to try to avoid this situation (being tortured).  One
> (good) way to archive this is to start talking about "ethics".  If I
> can
> make other human beings to "believe" that it is ethically wrong to
> torture objects, that behave as if they were conscious, then the
> probability that somebody will torture me decreases.
> But if "me" is not conscious, why should us try to diminish that
> probability?
>  My brain is constructed in such a way, that if my pain center is 
> stimulated, then I will not repeat those action that caused the pain 
> center to be stimulated.  (And if my lust center is stimulated, then I 
> will repeat those actions that caused my lust center to be 
> stimulated.)  My neurons in my brain are interconnected in such a way, 
> causing this behavoiur.

All right.

> This is all ethics is about: Trying to avoid stimulating the pain
> center
> in our brains.
> Could pain exist without consciousness?
> Do you agree that the sensation of pain is different from acting like
> if having that sensation of pain?
> If not movie actors would complain!
>  Pain is the same thing as the pain center in the brain being 
> stimulated. 

If you are really unconscious or not conscious, you could say this, 
indeed, but I hardly believe you are unconscious.
In the best case your theory will work for you and other "zombie". It 
cannot work for those who admit the 1/3 distinction or the mind/body 
apparent distinction.
You are on the fringe of being an eliminativist philosopher. What I do 
appreciate is that you offer your theory for yourself. Let me ask you 
explicitly this question, which I admit is admittedly weird to ask to a 
zombie, but: do you think *we* are conscious?

> When movie actors behave as if they were feeling pain, then it is not 
> pain, because their pain center in their brains are not being 
> stimulated.  Only their outer behaviour is the same, inside their 
> brains there will be different.




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