# Re: Maudlin & How many times does COMP have to be false before its false?

```
1Z wrote:
>
>
>
> On Feb 18, 4:00 pm, benjayk <benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> 1Z wrote:
>>
>> > On Feb 17, 10:38 pm, benjayk <benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> >> Brent Meeker-2 wrote:
>>
>> >> > On 2/17/2011 12:27 PM, benjayk wrote:
>>
>> >> >> Brent Meeker-2 wrote:
>>
>> >> >>> On 2/17/2011 10:14 AM, benjayk wrote:
>>
>> >> >>>> 1Z wrote:
>>
>> >> >>>>> On Feb 17, 3:10 pm, benjayk<benjamin.jaku...@googlemail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>>
>> >> >>>>>> 1Z wrote:
>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> Comp will imply that such a primary matter cannnot interfer
>> at
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> all
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> with your consciousness, so that IF comp is correct physics
>> >> has
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> to
>>
>> >> >>>>>> be
>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> reduced to number theory, and such a primary matter is an
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> invisible
>> >> >>>>>>>>>> epiphenomena.
>>
>> >> >>>>>>>>> Physics cannot be eliminated in favour of non existent
>> numbers.
>> >> >>>>>>>>> Numbers
>> >> >>>>>>>>> have to exist for the conclusion to follow
>>
>> >> >>>>>>>> Physics is not eliminated, on the contrary, physics is
>> explained
>> >> >>>>>>>> from
>>
>> >> >>>>>>>> something non physical.
>>
>> >> >>>>>>> The anti realist position is not that numbers are some
>> existing
>> >> non-
>> >> >>>>>>> physical
>> >> >>>>>>> thing: it is that they are not existent at all.
>>
>> >> >>>>>> If numbers don't exist at all, what does a statement that seems
>> >> very
>> >> >>>>>> much
>> >> >>>>>> like a non-fictional and true statement, like "I have two
>> hands"
>> >> >>>>>> mean?
>>
>> >> >>>>> It's asserting the existence of hands, not numbers.
>>
>> >> >>>> You can't have one without the other.
>>
>> >> > Sure you can.  You can have an apple and an orange.  Whether they
>> >> > constitute two of something depends on you thinking of them as
>> fruits.
>>
>> >> I don't think you can conceive of "an apple and and orange" without
>> them
>> >> constituting two things.
>>
>> > That doesn't mean "two" is a third thing with a separate exisence.
>>
>> It doesn't have to have "seperate" existence.
>> The parts of my body exist, even though they have no seperate existence
>> from
>> my body.
>
> If you are saying that "two" is not separate from the apple and the
> orange...that
> is Aristoteleanism, not Platonism
>
I'm not necessarily defending Platonism (with the implication that numbers
are *more real* than material things or even the only real thing), only the
reality of numbers. Numbers and material things might be co-dependent.```
```
In my mind there can be no animal if there is no particular animal. Because
in this case, animal doesn't mean animal, but means anything. So equally
there are no two thing if there are no *particular* two things. Because to
count something, it must have particularity. "Nothing in particular" can't
be counted, or it can be counted as every number which really makes counting
meaningless.
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