On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 6:36 PM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi selva, > > > On 16 May 2011, at 16:49, selva wrote: > > Considering only our world in the many world interpretation,it is a >> separate causal domain.. >> there is no domain shear between the different domains(different >> parallel worlds)..i.e.there is decoherence.. >> It is known that in our causal domain,there is cause and effect >> relationships.. >> everything is happening because of a cause..everything is as it is >> because it ought to be such. >> There is a grand flow in the varying positions of atoms constituting >> the universe.. >> If this is right, >> > > This can't be right, if we assume that the brain (or whatever capable of > sustaining consciousness) can be emulated by a Turing machine, as most > people believe. > > > > > > then how can we say ,we have free will ? >> > > A determinist theory of free will is possible. What counts is that no > machine can determine itself completely, so that the determinism of his/her > behavior is known only by "God", not by the machine, nor by machine of > equivalent complexity. > Now, if you mean that free will is the capacity to disobey to arithmetic, > then it does not exist, most probably. > > > > > > why is there binary state at all ? >> > > OK. You could have asked equivalently: why is there natural numbers? > Logicians have shown last century that this is impossible to answer. > Actually we need the natural numbers to ask "why natural numbers". They > cannot be recover from any simpler theory. So we have to have some faith in > them. It is part of the initial postulates. > > > > > if there is free will,how can we say everything affects everything ? >> why is the 50-50 probability arises ? >> > > Such a probability can be explained by self-duplication. If you are a > machine, I can scan you (in principle) and duplicate you in two different > places. You cannot predict in advance what will be your subjective > experience after the duplication. BTW, this can be used to explain that > free-will is not explainable by the use of indeterminacy. > > > > > why is there probability functions at all ? >> > > Assuming we are digital machines, the answer is that the reality of > realities is very huge. There is an infinity of computations going through > your actual state of mind, and computer science explains why no machine can > know which computations, nor even which sheaf of computations support it. > There is automatically a statistics for the observable. > > > > > If the positions of the atoms in my mind(my thoughts) now affect the >> positions of the atoms in your brain(your thoughts) ,then does it mean >> you don't have a free will ? >> > > Why? On the contrary. To have free will you must have some ability to make > change around you. You certainly need some amount of determinacy. > > can i argue that the my ability to make change around me arises from the > changes around me.. > you are now thinking what you are thinking only because i asked you this....that is,with your so called ability i am changing some thing,and that changed things gives you the ability to change things around you..so going backwards..(events are affected only by the past occurences in the cone).wont we come to a single cause? > > > Is our consciousness part of the grand consciousness (the universe). >> > > If by universe you mean "physical universe", it is not clear if that exist. > Strictly speaking it is an open problem. With mechanism we can say that > there are many dreams, and we can say that some dreams glue well together to > form shared dreams. But it is not known if they glue so well as to define a > singular physical universe, or even just a singular physical multiverse. > Extremely hard question. > > > > > Are we like the white cells(individually conscious) in our body,to the >> universe..? >> > > You might be naive about "we", "body" and "universe". No problem, it is a > tradition since theology has been abandon to politics 1500 years ago, in > Occident. (Closure of Plato Academy in Athena, about 525 after JC). > > > > Then above all,the real question is why is there parallel worlds at >> all ? >> > > If you accept the idea that your brain can be simulated at some correct > level of substitution (so that you would survive a digital brain > substitution), then the additive and multiplicative structure of numbers > defines a vast "block mindscape", containing many dreams (as seen from > inside). Some dreams glue and generate sharable (among collectivities of > "universal numbers) deep histories, which are seen as universe appearance > from their points views. The physical realm does not disappear, but is > secondary to the "numbers dreams". The physical realm is still fundamental, > but it is epistemological, not ontological. > You might read the shortest paper(*) I wrote to sum up the consequences of > taking seriously the *assumption* that we are Turing emulable. We discussed > it a lot. Some have not yet seen the point, I'm afraid. I sum up it > provocatively sometimes by saying that if we are rational machine, then we > have to abandon the theology of Aristotle (atheism christianism etc.) for > the theology of Plato (objective idealism, Pythagorism, some budhist and > indian school or thought). In the first one there is an emphasis on the > 'creation'. In the second one the creation is a sign of something else > (actually arithmetic). > (*) > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/publications/SANE2004MARCHALAbstract.html > > > > everything affects everything or not ? >> > > In which sense? In our local physical realm even a big supernova explosion > far away, cannot affect you here and now. > In the arithmetical realm every truth is connected, but perhaps in a more > trivial sense. They are infinities of intermediate modalities. > > Take it easy. We are in deep water. Ask any question. > > Bruno > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
