On 05 Jul 2011, at 05:49, B Soroud wrote:

REx:

"Information is just that which consciousness finds meaningful."

what I want to know is when did this term enter our lexicon... the Greeks didn't use it, nor the Romans…. I don’t recall either Descartes, Spinoza, Leibniz, Hume… using it….

It must have started with either Kant or Hegel… Hegel for sure. We use to use the word soul or spirit, now we like using the word consciousness… it has become very popular. .. apparently etymologically it is related with to know or knowing…. But like I said… in so far as we think of “consciousness” or define “consciousness” it instantly becomes a thought or object of knowledge and not the real thing.

That confirms BDt -> ~Dt. (For those who have studied a little bit the modal logic G and G*). Actually consciousness is closer to the notion of truth, which cannot even be expressed by the machine, unlike consistency which can be expressed but not proved.

Bruno






On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 8:14 PM, Rex Allen <rexallen31...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 4:03 AM, Constantine Pseudonymous
<bsor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Rex, your killing me, I was following you well as the most logical
> seeming person here, but then you started plummeting into thoughtless
> absurdities....

Ha!  Well, we all have our off days...


> "We can say that we have information about what we are aware of...but
> that is not the same as saying that awareness *is* information.
>
> Information is a difference that makes a difference.  But it has to
> make a difference *to* someone. "
>
> Awareness may very well be information, unless you want to make up a
> piece of information which masquerades as the entity behind
> information.
>
> You say information has to make a difference to someone... very well, > but that doesn't get you out of the problem of the enigma-identity of
> this supposed someone that you think must be at the root of
> information.

Well, I can see how my use of the term “someone” might lead to confusion.

However, I didn’t intend to imply the existence of some
“supra-experiential” entity.

My intended point was that information isn’t something that exists
separately from, or more fundamentally than conscious experience.

Information is just that which consciousness finds meaningful.


> "Information is observer-relative.  Observers aren’t information-
> relative. "
>
> Don't you see your "observer" is information!

Well...no.  I don’t see that.  Though perhaps we’re using different
definitions of “information”.


> Moving beyond the notion
> of a observer... I would even claim that observation isn't occurring, > neither as a act or process or object or event.... there is merely the
> observed.

There is merely experience.


> "Representation depends on
> me.  I don’t depend on representation. "
>
> Wrong. "You" do depend on representation... but pseudo- representation,
> "you" depend on a pseudo-representation or a non-representational
> invented pseudo-representation.

Psuedo-representation?


> "Representation is
> something you do, not something that you are. "
>
> Well then what are you!

Consciousness.


Rex

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