On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 8:29 PM, B Soroud <bsor...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Jason, you have this supposed conception of "the whole of reality", when
> you utter such words... what appears in your mind?
>
> I would assert: next to nothing.
>
>
Is it important what is in my mind when I use the words?  I don't have to
hold the whole earth or the whole solar system in my head for them to exist.


> Can you give us your system that explicates your notion of "the whole of
> reality"....
>
>
My conception of what objects exist in is very open.  I'm willing to accept
anything that is not ruled out by its own definition exists.  (And what is
to stop it from existing?)


> I want to get at your picture of the whole of reality.... and if you don't
> have one.... well then....
>
>
This paper is a good introduction: http://arxiv.org/pdf/gr-qc/9704009v2

Jason



what of?
>
> what of?
>
> On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 4:03 PM, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 3:10 PM, Constantine Pseudonymous <
>> bsor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Jason, just because all those people said all that stuff doesn't mean
>>> any of it is true.
>>>
>>
>> It's not a matter of true or false, but a matter of opinion whether one
>> considers the whole of reality to be God or not.  We can all agree reality
>> exists, perhaps we disagree on its extent or its true form, but its up to
>> you what you whether you consider it God.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> It seems to me that you are stringing together all these statements
>>> into some kind of evidence or support for a position... a faith.
>>>
>>
>> Faith in the existence of reality does not require a very big leap of
>> faith.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> One has to understand the genealogy of such notions. one needs a
>>> psychoanalysis or psycho-analytic reductionism.
>>>
>>> I'm not really sure what Bruno means by "computational theory of mind"
>>>
>>
>> All that is meant is that the mind is a machine, which can be emulated
>> without requiring an infinite amount of memory or work.
>>
>>
>>> and its consequences, whether real or imaginary...
>>>
>>> but, it seems to me that you are building a kind of argument by
>>> authority... i.e. all these different people agree on these points
>>> therefore there must be something to them.
>>>
>>
>> What argument do you presume me to be making?
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I don't think Bruno has really articulated to us his theology... I
>>> don't think he has any real system.
>>>
>>> On Jul 6, 11:07 am, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
>>> > Thanks Jason. A very nice post which reminds me that the comp's
>>> > consequence are not that original.
>>> >
>>> > Bruno
>>> >
>>> > On 06 Jul 2011, at 06:23, Jason Resch wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > > On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 2:31 PM, B Soroud <bsor...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > > lol, you still believe in the dream of God = truth/reality.
>>> >
>>> > > Truth/Reality?
>>> >
>>> > > nice one!
>>> >
>>> > > What is wrong with equating all of truth and all of reality with
>>> > > God?  The existence of the whole of that which exists is
>>> > > indisputable (by definition), so calling it God is a matter of
>>> > > taste, one which many religions seem to agree with:
>>> >
>>> > > The supreme God Brahman is defined as: "the eternal, unchanging,
>>> > > infinite, immanent, and transcendent reality which is the Divine
>>> > > Ground of all matter, energy, time, space, being, and everything
>>> > > beyond in this Universe."
>>> >
>>> > > "Among Hindu sects, Advaita Vedanta espouses monism. The closest
>>> > > interpretation of the term can be found in the Taittiriya Upanishad
>>> > > (II.1) where Brahman is described as satyam jnanam anantam brahman
>>> > > ("Brahman is of the nature of truth, knowledge and infinity"). Thus,
>>>
>>> > > Brahman is the origin and end of all things, material or otherwise.
>>> > > Brahman is the root source and Divine Ground of everything that
>>> > > exists, and is the only thing that exists according to Shankara. It
>>> > > is defined as unknowable and Satchitananda ("Truth-Consciousness-
>>> > > Bliss"). Since it is eternal and infinite, it comprises the only
>>> > > truth. The goal of Vedanta is to realize that the soul (Atman) is
>>> > > actually nothing but Brahman. The Hindu pantheon of gods is said, in
>>>
>>> > > the Vedas and Upanishads, to be only higher manifestations of
>>> > > Brahman. For this reason, "ekam sat" ("Truth is one"), and all is
>>> > > Brahman. "
>>> >
>>> > > From the Brahma Samhita:
>>> > > "I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, whose effulgence is the
>>> > > source of the nondifferentiated Brahman mentioned in the Upanishads,
>>>
>>> > > being differentiated from the infinity of glories of the mundane
>>> > > universe appears as the indivisible, infinite, limitless, truth."
>>> >
>>> > > Regardinga Maya: "In most of Hinduism and Transcendentalism, all
>>> > > matter is believed to be an illusion called Maya, blinding us from
>>> > > knowing the truth. Maya is the limited, purely physical and mental
>>> > > reality in which our everyday consciousness has become entangled.
>>> > > Maya gets destroyed for a person when they perceive Brahman with
>>> > > transcendental knowledge."
>>> >
>>> > > "The concept of Brahman as the single formless transcendent 'being
>>> > > of absolute existence' that is the origin and support of the
>>> > > phenomenal universe, is nearly identical to that of YHWH, the
>>> > > concept of 'God' in Judaism. The term YHWH comes from the Semitic
>>> > > root הוה 'howa', to exist, and is connected with something that is
>>> > > self-sustaining or self-existent, is the cause of all existence, and
>>>
>>> > > the totality of the phenomenal universe that brings everything into
>>> > > being."
>>> >
>>> > > Among the 99 names of God in Islam:
>>> > > Al-Wāsi'     The Vast, The All-Embracing, The Omnipresent, The
>>> > > Boundless
>>> > > Al-Ḥaqq     The Truth, The Real
>>> > > Al-Wāḥid     The One, The Unique
>>> > > Al-'Aḥad     The Unity, The Indivisible
>>> > > Aṣ-Ṣamad     The Eternal, The Absolute, The Self-Sufficient
>>> > > Al-Bāqīy     The Immutable, The Infinite, The Everlasting
>>> >
>>> > > Some of the names of Krishna:
>>> > > Achala - Still Lord
>>> > > Parabrahmana - The Supreme Absolute Truth
>>> > > Sanatana - The Eternal Lord
>>> > > Sarvajana - Omniscient Lord
>>> >
>>> > > The root Mantra of the Sikh religion begins: "there is one creator,
>>> > > whose name is truth..."
>>> >
>>> > > In Buddhism: Samantabhadra Buddha declares of itself:
>>> > > "I am the core of all that exists. I am the seed of all that exists.
>>>
>>> > > I am the cause of all that exists. I am the trunk of all that
>>> > > exists. I am the foundation of all that exists. I am the root of
>>> > > existence. I am "the core" because I contain all phenomena. I am
>>> > > "the seed" because I give birth to everything. I am "the cause"
>>> > > because all comes from me. I am "the trunk" because the
>>> > > ramifications of every event sprout from me. I am "the foundation"
>>> > > because all abides in me. I am called "the root" because I am
>>> > > everything."
>>> >
>>> > > Quotes:
>>> >
>>> > > "Geometry existed before the creation, it is co-eternal with the
>>> > > mind of God, Geometry provided god with a model for creation,
>>> > > Geometry is God himself." -- Kepler
>>> >
>>> > > "To all of us who hold the Christian belief that God is truth,
>>> > > anything that is true is a fact about God, and mathematics is a
>>> > > branch of theology."  -- Hilda Phoebe Hudson
>>> >
>>> > > "The laws of nature are but the mathematical thoughts of God."  --
>>> > > Euclid
>>> >
>>> > > "I would say with those who say ‘God is Love’, God is Love.  But
>>> > > deep down in me I used to say that though God may be Love, God is
>>> > > Truth above all.  If it is possible for the human tongue to give the
>>>
>>> > > fullest description of God, I have come to the conclusion that God
>>> > > is Truth.  Two years ago I went a step further and said that Truth
>>> > > is God.  You will see the fine distinction between the two
>>> > > statements, ‘God is Truth’ and ‘Truth is God’.  I came to
>>> > > that conclusion after a continuous and relentless search after truth
>>>
>>> > > which began fifty years ago.  I then found that the nearest approach
>>>
>>> > > to truth was through love.  But I also found that love has many
>>> > > meanings in the English language and that human love in the sense of
>>>
>>> > > passion could become a degrading thing.  I found too that love in
>>> > > the sense of ahimsa [nonviolence, roughly] had only a limited number
>>>
>>> > > of votaries in the world.  But I never found a double meaning in
>>> > > connection with truth and even atheists had not demurred to the
>>> > > necessity of power of truth.  But in their passion for discovering
>>> > > truth, atheists have not hesitated to deny the very existence of God
>>>
>>> > > – from their point of view rightly.  It was because of this
>>> > > reasoning that I saw that rather than say that God is Truth, I
>>> > > should say that Truth is God.  Add to this the great difficulty,
>>> > > that millions have taken the name of God and in His name committed
>>> > > nameless atrocities.  Not that the scientists very often do not
>>> > > commit atrocities in the name of Truth.  Then there is another thing
>>>
>>> > > in Hindu philosophy, namely, God alone is and nothing else exists,
>>> > > and the same truth you see emphasized and exemplified in the kalma
>>> > > of Islam.  And there you find it clearly stated that God alone is,
>>> > > and nothing else exists.  In fact, the Sanskrit word for truth is a
>>> > > word which literally means that which exists, sat.  For these and
>>> > > many other reasons, I have come to the conclusion that the
>>> > > definition – Truth is God – gives me the greatest satisfaction.
>>> > > And when you want to find Truth as God, the only inevitable means is
>>>
>>> > > love, that is, non-violence, and since I believe that ultimately the
>>>
>>> > > means and ends are convertible terms, I should not hesitate to say
>>> > > that God is love." -- Gandhi
>>> >
>>> > > From the above, it should be clear that the idea that God = Truth =
>>> > > Reality, is hardly a new or strange idea.
>>> >
>>> > > Jason
>>> >
>>> > > --
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>>> >
>>> > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
>>>
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