Jason, you have this supposed conception of "the whole of reality", when you utter such words... what appears in your mind?
I would assert: next to nothing. Can you give us your system that explicates your notion of "the whole of reality".... I want to get at your picture of the whole of reality.... and if you don't have one.... well then.... what of? what of? On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 4:03 PM, Jason Resch <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 3:10 PM, Constantine Pseudonymous < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Jason, just because all those people said all that stuff doesn't mean >> any of it is true. >> > > It's not a matter of true or false, but a matter of opinion whether one > considers the whole of reality to be God or not. We can all agree reality > exists, perhaps we disagree on its extent or its true form, but its up to > you what you whether you consider it God. > > >> >> It seems to me that you are stringing together all these statements >> into some kind of evidence or support for a position... a faith. >> > > Faith in the existence of reality does not require a very big leap of > faith. > > >> >> One has to understand the genealogy of such notions. one needs a >> psychoanalysis or psycho-analytic reductionism. >> >> I'm not really sure what Bruno means by "computational theory of mind" >> > > All that is meant is that the mind is a machine, which can be emulated > without requiring an infinite amount of memory or work. > > >> and its consequences, whether real or imaginary... >> >> but, it seems to me that you are building a kind of argument by >> authority... i.e. all these different people agree on these points >> therefore there must be something to them. >> > > What argument do you presume me to be making? > > >> >> I don't think Bruno has really articulated to us his theology... I >> don't think he has any real system. >> >> On Jul 6, 11:07 am, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote: >> > Thanks Jason. A very nice post which reminds me that the comp's >> > consequence are not that original. >> > >> > Bruno >> > >> > On 06 Jul 2011, at 06:23, Jason Resch wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 2:31 PM, B Soroud <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > lol, you still believe in the dream of God = truth/reality. >> > >> > > Truth/Reality? >> > >> > > nice one! >> > >> > > What is wrong with equating all of truth and all of reality with >> > > God? The existence of the whole of that which exists is >> > > indisputable (by definition), so calling it God is a matter of >> > > taste, one which many religions seem to agree with: >> > >> > > The supreme God Brahman is defined as: "the eternal, unchanging, >> > > infinite, immanent, and transcendent reality which is the Divine >> > > Ground of all matter, energy, time, space, being, and everything >> > > beyond in this Universe." >> > >> > > "Among Hindu sects, Advaita Vedanta espouses monism. The closest >> > > interpretation of the term can be found in the Taittiriya Upanishad >> > > (II.1) where Brahman is described as satyam jnanam anantam brahman >> > > ("Brahman is of the nature of truth, knowledge and infinity"). Thus, >> > > Brahman is the origin and end of all things, material or otherwise. >> > > Brahman is the root source and Divine Ground of everything that >> > > exists, and is the only thing that exists according to Shankara. It >> > > is defined as unknowable and Satchitananda ("Truth-Consciousness- >> > > Bliss"). Since it is eternal and infinite, it comprises the only >> > > truth. The goal of Vedanta is to realize that the soul (Atman) is >> > > actually nothing but Brahman. The Hindu pantheon of gods is said, in >> > > the Vedas and Upanishads, to be only higher manifestations of >> > > Brahman. For this reason, "ekam sat" ("Truth is one"), and all is >> > > Brahman. " >> > >> > > From the Brahma Samhita: >> > > "I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, whose effulgence is the >> > > source of the nondifferentiated Brahman mentioned in the Upanishads, >> > > being differentiated from the infinity of glories of the mundane >> > > universe appears as the indivisible, infinite, limitless, truth." >> > >> > > Regardinga Maya: "In most of Hinduism and Transcendentalism, all >> > > matter is believed to be an illusion called Maya, blinding us from >> > > knowing the truth. Maya is the limited, purely physical and mental >> > > reality in which our everyday consciousness has become entangled. >> > > Maya gets destroyed for a person when they perceive Brahman with >> > > transcendental knowledge." >> > >> > > "The concept of Brahman as the single formless transcendent 'being >> > > of absolute existence' that is the origin and support of the >> > > phenomenal universe, is nearly identical to that of YHWH, the >> > > concept of 'God' in Judaism. The term YHWH comes from the Semitic >> > > root הוה 'howa', to exist, and is connected with something that is >> > > self-sustaining or self-existent, is the cause of all existence, and >> > > the totality of the phenomenal universe that brings everything into >> > > being." >> > >> > > Among the 99 names of God in Islam: >> > > Al-Wāsi' The Vast, The All-Embracing, The Omnipresent, The >> > > Boundless >> > > Al-Ḥaqq The Truth, The Real >> > > Al-Wāḥid The One, The Unique >> > > Al-'Aḥad The Unity, The Indivisible >> > > Aṣ-Ṣamad The Eternal, The Absolute, The Self-Sufficient >> > > Al-Bāqīy The Immutable, The Infinite, The Everlasting >> > >> > > Some of the names of Krishna: >> > > Achala - Still Lord >> > > Parabrahmana - The Supreme Absolute Truth >> > > Sanatana - The Eternal Lord >> > > Sarvajana - Omniscient Lord >> > >> > > The root Mantra of the Sikh religion begins: "there is one creator, >> > > whose name is truth..." >> > >> > > In Buddhism: Samantabhadra Buddha declares of itself: >> > > "I am the core of all that exists. I am the seed of all that exists. >> > > I am the cause of all that exists. I am the trunk of all that >> > > exists. I am the foundation of all that exists. I am the root of >> > > existence. I am "the core" because I contain all phenomena. I am >> > > "the seed" because I give birth to everything. I am "the cause" >> > > because all comes from me. I am "the trunk" because the >> > > ramifications of every event sprout from me. I am "the foundation" >> > > because all abides in me. I am called "the root" because I am >> > > everything." >> > >> > > Quotes: >> > >> > > "Geometry existed before the creation, it is co-eternal with the >> > > mind of God, Geometry provided god with a model for creation, >> > > Geometry is God himself." -- Kepler >> > >> > > "To all of us who hold the Christian belief that God is truth, >> > > anything that is true is a fact about God, and mathematics is a >> > > branch of theology." -- Hilda Phoebe Hudson >> > >> > > "The laws of nature are but the mathematical thoughts of God." -- >> > > Euclid >> > >> > > "I would say with those who say ‘God is Love’, God is Love. But >> > > deep down in me I used to say that though God may be Love, God is >> > > Truth above all. If it is possible for the human tongue to give the >> > > fullest description of God, I have come to the conclusion that God >> > > is Truth. Two years ago I went a step further and said that Truth >> > > is God. You will see the fine distinction between the two >> > > statements, ‘God is Truth’ and ‘Truth is God’. I came to >> > > that conclusion after a continuous and relentless search after truth >> > > which began fifty years ago. I then found that the nearest approach >> > > to truth was through love. But I also found that love has many >> > > meanings in the English language and that human love in the sense of >> > > passion could become a degrading thing. I found too that love in >> > > the sense of ahimsa [nonviolence, roughly] had only a limited number >> > > of votaries in the world. But I never found a double meaning in >> > > connection with truth and even atheists had not demurred to the >> > > necessity of power of truth. But in their passion for discovering >> > > truth, atheists have not hesitated to deny the very existence of God >> > > – from their point of view rightly. It was because of this >> > > reasoning that I saw that rather than say that God is Truth, I >> > > should say that Truth is God. Add to this the great difficulty, >> > > that millions have taken the name of God and in His name committed >> > > nameless atrocities. Not that the scientists very often do not >> > > commit atrocities in the name of Truth. Then there is another thing >> > > in Hindu philosophy, namely, God alone is and nothing else exists, >> > > and the same truth you see emphasized and exemplified in the kalma >> > > of Islam. And there you find it clearly stated that God alone is, >> > > and nothing else exists. In fact, the Sanskrit word for truth is a >> > > word which literally means that which exists, sat. For these and >> > > many other reasons, I have come to the conclusion that the >> > > definition – Truth is God – gives me the greatest satisfaction. >> > > And when you want to find Truth as God, the only inevitable means is >> > > love, that is, non-violence, and since I believe that ultimately the >> > > means and ends are convertible terms, I should not hesitate to say >> > > that God is love." -- Gandhi >> > >> > > From the above, it should be clear that the idea that God = Truth = >> > > Reality, is hardly a new or strange idea. >> > >> > > Jason >> > >> > > -- >> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > > Groups "Everything List" group. >> > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >> . >> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected] >> > > . >> > > For more options, visit this group athttp:// >> groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en >> > > . >> > >> > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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