On Aug 1, 1:55 pm, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
> On 01 Aug 2011, at 01:12, Craig Weinberg wrote:
> > What machine attributes are not Turing emulable? I thought Church says
> > that all real computations are Turing emulable.
> But for Church the "real computations" are what can do a finite mind  
> with a finite set of transparent instructions, in a finite time, but  
> with as much memory and time he needs. It is the "intuitively  
> computable functions".

I didn't realize it was that limited. I wasn't thinking of real in the
sense of only physical, but if Church posits a finite 'mind' with
transparent 'instructions' then it would seem useless for emulating
qualia. Does a mind include sensation and perception? It seems very
narrow and special case begging.

>There is no reference at all with any idea of  
> "real" in the sense of physically real, which is something never  
> defined. David Deutsch has introduced a "physical" version of Church  
> thesis, but this has no bearing at all with Church thesis. Actually I  
> do think that Church thesis makes Deutsch thesis false, but I am not  
> sure (yet I am sure that Church thesis + "yes doctor" leads to the  
> existence of random oracle and local violation of Church thesis by  
> some physical phenomena (akin to iterated self-multiplication).

So if there are machine aspects that are not Turing emulable, why
aren't they primitive?


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
For more options, visit this group at 

Reply via email to