Craig, Brent decries: * ">That's the crux of the argument. Do you suppose that if I were **> decomposed in my constituent atoms I would still feel? " <* Whereupon you answer professionally. Not with the question "What is "FEEL"???" Nor with the retribution that "we" are not composed of 'atoms' ONLY - so why should these hypothetical ingredients do something like 'feeling'? Brent continues more reasonably about "organized matter" (still figmentous) - while you seem to return to the figments with some "*sensorimoive electromagnetism" - *part of the subjective physical world. Your '*information does not physically exist'* makes 'sense' to me, although I wonder where the 'adult' and 'human' came in to parse(?).
To your last par: I wonder if our explanatory figment "atom" holds water in a wider sense. After 1/2 c in productive polymer chemical R&D I wonder if I spent that time in a (chemical) Alice's Wunderland? Also "information'" is pretty flexible. It should refer to 'relations'. Regards John Mikes On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Craig Weinberg <[email protected]>wrote: > On Aug 6, 2:20 pm, meekerdb <[email protected]> wrote: > > On 8/6/2011 6:03 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > > > 2. Consciousness isn't a special logical design that turns inanimate > > > objects and circuits into something that can feel. Matter feels > > > already - or detects/reacts. Consciousness is just the same principle > > > run through multiple organic elaborations so that it feels as the > > > interior of an organism rather than just the interior of cells or > > > molecules. It scales up. > > > > That's the crux of the argument. Do you suppose that if I were > > decomposed in my constituent atoms I would still feel? > > You wouldn't feel, but neither would something in your shape feel if > it were composed of ping pong balls. The fundamental unit has to be > something with the potential to build it's existing nature into > feeling. If you are knocked unconscious you stop feeling, but your > brain continues to make sense of itself and bring itself back into a > condition where you will become conscious again, assuming the damage > doesn't prohibit that. > > > The matter is, > > ex hypothesi, the same. It seems pretty clear to me that it is not the > > matter per se that feels, it is the organized matter. So what is it > > about the organization that results in qualia? > > It's both. The relationship between the matter and it's organization > results in sensorimotive electromagnetism, which is subjectively > experienced as compacted qualia and objectively computed as discrete > quantitative relationships. > > > One pluasible answer is > > that it is the way the organized matter (e.g. a neuron or a brain or a > > computer) processes information. > > Right, but you have it inside out. Information is an abstraction, so > saying that qualia is the way that organized matter processes > information is like saying that singing is the way that the vocal > chords process nouns and verbs. Information does not physically exist. > It's an intellectual construct requiring adult human sanity to parse. > Matter feels and makes sense, sense makes sense out of itself as > information. > > >That it is just a property of the > > matter is not plausible, since disorganized matter behaves much more > simply. > > Elements could not have different exclusive properties if there > weren't an inherent ability to participate in a larger organization. > Not all elements can be configured into the same molecules. Simple or > not, disorganized matter can't be made into whatever organization that > you'd like, and likewise, all abstract organizations are not > equivalent to material identities. > > Craig > http://s33light.org > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
