On 8/6/2011 12:23 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Aug 6, 2:20 pm, meekerdb<meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
On 8/6/2011 6:03 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
2. Consciousness isn't a special logical design that turns inanimate
objects and circuits into something that can feel. Matter feels
already - or detects/reacts. Consciousness is just the same principle
run through multiple organic elaborations so that it feels as the
interior of an organism rather than just the interior of cells or
molecules. It scales up.
That's the crux of the argument. Do you suppose that if I were
decomposed in my constituent atoms I would still feel?
You wouldn't feel, but neither would something in your shape feel if
it were composed of ping pong balls. The fundamental unit has to be
something with the potential to build it's existing nature into
That would be carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, and nitrogen atoms. So if I
make a computer out of those atoms and it's functionally equivalent to a
brain it will instantiate consciousness.
If you are knocked unconscious you stop feeling, but your
brain continues to make sense of itself and bring itself back into a
condition where you will become conscious again, assuming the damage
doesn't prohibit that.
The matter is,
ex hypothesi, the same. It seems pretty clear to me that it is not the
matter per se that feels, it is the organized matter. So what is it
about the organization that results in qualia?
It's both. The relationship between the matter and it's organization
results in sensorimotive electromagnetism,which is subjectively
experienced as compacted qualia and objectively computed as discrete
I can make no sense whatsoever of the above paragraphs as it is full of
idiosyncratic terms. Can you give an operational definition for
"sensorimotive electromagnetism" and how it is computed as relationships?
One pluasible answer is
that it is the way the organized matter (e.g. a neuron or a brain or a
computer) processes information.
Right, but you have it inside out. Information is an abstraction, so
saying that qualia is the way that organized matter processes
information is like saying that singing is the way that the vocal
chords process nouns and verbs. Information does not physically exist.
It's an intellectual construct requiring adult human sanity to parse.
Matter feels and makes sense, sense makes sense out of itself as
Matter is an intellectual construct too. As are EM fields. And probably
"sensorimotive fields" too, if I knew what they were.
That it is just a property of the
matter is not plausible, since disorganized matter behaves much more simply.
Elements could not have different exclusive properties if there
weren't an inherent ability to participate in a larger organization.
?? The noble gases don't have different exclusive properties?
Not all elements can be configured into the same molecules.
No, but all quarks and electrons can.
not, disorganized matter can't be made into whatever organization that
you'd like, and likewise,
Tell it to the LHC.
all abstract organizations are not
equivalent to material identities.
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