# Re: COMP refutation paper - finally out

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On 27 Jul 2011, at 15:36, benjayk wrote:```
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Bruno Marchal wrote:
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On 24 Jul 2011, at 22:08, benjayk wrote:

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Yes. A tiny part of arithmetic is already sufficiently rich to
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implement (in the original mathematical sense) very complex emulation bearing entities much powerfull than that tiny arithmetical entities,
```and those can become lucid on the web of arithmetical dream, which
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will be, as seen from inside (the points of view), terribly complex, so that paradoxically, the whole of mathematics can only scratch the
```arithmetical truth. Analytical truth and physical truth are
simplification of the arithmetical truth by arithmetical creatures.
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```I think you confuse arithmetical truth with TRUTH.
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That is a consequence of comp. If "we" are machine at some level, then
```it is absolutely undecidable if there is anything more than
arithmetical truth.
The analytical truth and the physical truth and the theological truth
can be seen as internal "epistemological views". In arithmetic there
are defined by Bp, or variants, or by by scheme B_n x & x (x
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arithmetical formula, B_n being some other LĂ¶bian machine, for example)
My point is that this truth has little to do with arithmetic in particular.
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Indeed, any first order specification of a universal system will do. They are "ontologically" equivalent: with the combinators you have the numbers, and with the numbers, you have the combinators. So combinatoric truth and arithmetical truth, and Conway-game-of-life truth are all the same truth, with different shape or implementations.
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Arithmetic just happens to be powerful enough to point towards it. All other universal systems accomplish the same. So to say just number relations exist
```and all else is an "epistemological view" on that is a very narrow
interpretation.
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Arithmetical truth contains fortranic truth, lispic truth, combinatoric truth, etc. It does not contains theological truth, nor physical truth, except in the 'epistemological' points of view of the creature they have all. So, arithmetic is made into a theory of everything, and arithmetical truth does play the role of the big unameable things. If you take fortran programs as ontology, exactly the same can be said. Once you search a theory of everything, comp does confuse truth and arithmetical truth, or Truth and fortranic truth, etc. When number relation exist, all other universal system exist in a similar ontological sense. In arithmetical truth the fortranic truth is automatically given, you don't need to introduce points of view, unlike the analytical and the physical, for which you need the epistemology (to interview the fortran program or the numbers).
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Bruno

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http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/

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