On 14 Aug 2011, at 16:21, Craig Weinberg wrote:

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On Aug 14, 8:55 am, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:The theory exists. Computer science and mathematical logic can beusedto formulate precisely the hard problem. And to solve it including a 'meta-solution' of the hard part of it.How does logic become feeling?

`Logic cannot. You need logic + a universal machine. For example logic`

`+ addition and multiplication of integers.`

`feeling comes from the true but incommunicable propositions that`

`numbers or machine get by looking at themselves (in the standrd way`

`discovered by GĂ¶del for formal theories).`

I can see something that feels being able to associate numbers with feeling, but I can't realistically imagine something like a mousetrap being able to feel just by using logic.

`Why not (with logic + numbers). It means that you put in the mousetrap`

`something non Turing emulable. Nobody has even found a process in`

`nature which is not either Turing emulable, or due to self-`

`multiplication.`

So your assumption just seem gratuitous.

How does complex math become simple sense, and why should it have to?

`To smell coffee is simple, yet you need quite a number of very complex`

`molecular and cellular happenings to live it.`

I think few people realize the impact of the discovery of the universal machine (or if you prefer the discovery of the Post Church Kleene Turing Markov thesis).Can you summarize what that impact is?

`The birth of computers and computers science. The computer, the`

`internet, Hubble, the iphone, up to the discovery that Aristotelian`

`theology got a rational Platonist competitor.`

`It is the first discovery of a concrete effective universal notion,`

`and the discovery of its unavoidable limitations. And the discovery`

`that it can be aware of that limitation and transcend it in a non`

`predictable way. almost the discovery of a truly new unknown, which`

`might forces us to learn a bit of modesty.`

Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.