On 17 Aug 2011, at 13:49, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 4:16 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

You miss my point. the brain is not replaced. It is just not functionning at all. The cosmic rays supplies only the motor control ouputs. It is much less information than a supply of the whole brain. Yet he answers the student correctly, and has the right behavior. *we* know he is just lucky. is there
The question is tricky. Eventually consciousness is just not attached to moving bodies at all. Eventually the bodies does not "really" exists outside

We consider first replacement of a volume of brain tissue with saline.
By amazing luck, the molecules at the interface between the saline and
the normal tissue through thermal motion and radioactive decay behave
just as they would have before the replacement. The person therefore
experiences no change in consciousness. Then more and more brain
tissue is replaced with saline and the same amazing luck prevails: the
brain functions normally and consciousness is normal -

From its point of view. But this shows that his consciousness is already in Platonia. The brain just makes it possible to manifest itself relatively to some probable computation. In a sense, we-the bodies are all zombie, but then we-the-bodies does not really exist, and we appear as such in the platonic consciousness of the others.

or else we get
partial zombies. Eventually, there is only a thin shell of neurons and
consciousness is unchanged. Finally, there is only one neuron left,
then one molecule from the one neuron, then no neurons at all - just
normal saline and the muscles. And consciousness is unchanged at each
point, otherwise we could have partial zombies. Where does this
thought experiment go wrong?

No where. But it is a step toward immateriality, and physics/machine- psychology reversal.

Imagine that the student don't ask any question. Then the cosmic rays
only to make it looks just quiet behind its desk. No neurons works at
and the cosmic rays supplies very little information in its cerebral stem
that he does not fall. Is the guy a zombie?

Yes, but he could be unconscious and propped up at his desk with a
normal brain as well.

But in this experience, it did not.

Look we both agree that comp makes sense, and that there is no partial zombie. This is enough for showing that comp entails the 323 principle, but
that let no choice: we have to attribute consciousness to the
logico-arithmetical relations emulating computations, and physics eventually is reduced into machine's bio-psych-theo-logy, part of arithmetic and the
inside points of view of arithmetic (like Bp, Bp & p, etc...).

I am no more sure you still see that comp implies the reversal
physics/arithmetic, which would mean you change your mind since the last exposition of the Movie Graph. We might need to come back on this (many
others still dont' see the point, I think).

No, I still agree. I think the above thought experiment where the
muscle activity alone would seem to preserve consciousness shows that
there is something wrong with the physical supervenience thesis.

Exactly. Some phrasing you have used in some replies to Craig have made me doubting that you were still agreeing, but I understand the pedagogical necessity. Thanks for the precision.



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