Thanks, Brent, I chose the wrong wording to Stathis.
John

On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 2:00 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:

> **
> On 8/17/2011 9:01 AM, John Mikes wrote:
>
> Brent wrote about my questioning 'energy':
>
> *"Hmm.  It's the 00 component of the stress-energy tensor.  It's the
> Hamiltonian, the time evolution operator.  It's not a thing*."
>
>  Brent, you may know better than that:
>  1. I did not restrict my inquiry to 'things' (is e.g. a 'refutation' a
> thing? but you *can* identify it)
>
>
> You explicitly asked," is it a thing".  So I answered.
>
>
>
>  2. The ID for 'energy' is misplaced if you refer to it as a component of
> a *'kind''* of it
>
>
> ??
>
>
>  3. a Hamiltonian is part of the physical world figment. In my 'agnostic'
> inquiry I want to eliminate the restrictions to human conclusions as
> explanation. Can you arrive at a so called 'Hamiltonian' by considerations
> without applying any relation to references including the 'idea' of energy?
> in which case it falls again into an idem per idem.
>
>
> Sure.  If you find a time evolution operator that accurately predicts the
> evolution of a closed system, then it turns out that it implies a conserved
> quantity - which is what we call the energy.
>
>
>
>  4. I am not sure if "time" is primary to 'energy, or vice versa, but both
> fall under point  #3.
>
>
> They are conjugate variables.  Time symmetry <=> energy conservation by
> Noether's theorem.
>
> Brent
>
>
>
>  I tried to outline something (in my own *narrative* about the 'story' -
> history? of *some(?) * Multiverse which might lead to descriptions in
> physical thinking "close" to energy:
> that is the formation of the timeless complexity we call a* 'universe'* -
> from the complete symmetry of (my) proto-world "Plenitude" by inevitable
> reasons, which respites as it forms - yet *FROM THE INSIDE* shows for 'us'
> a vast time-space system (*in* *OUR* universe)
> which is explained for human understanding(?) by the terms of a physical
> world.
> The trend of the re-dissipation is a draw on the complexity realized -
> again from the inside - as a power to equalize, dissipate, eliminate
> 'complex knots' all the way  from a hypothetical Big Bang to a similarly
> hypothetical Big Crunch of redistribution. All in a timeless instant as seen
> from the Plenitude. (Mind you: I set up the Plenitude as beyond the
> limitations of our insight and it's symmetry beyond the limitations we have
> for the term.
> The inevitability of 'universes' formation comes from the postulate that
> within the Plenitude everything is in 'transition' with everything else -
> consequently it is inevitable that 'related' aspects "ball together"
> occasionally (into a complexity?) violating the total symmetry).
> This 'narrative' has no "scientific" claims and is not ready for
> discussion.
>
>  John
>
>
>
>
>
>  On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 7:26 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>  On 8/16/2011 9:27 AM, John Mikes wrote:
>>
>> Stathis,
>>
>> do you have a reasonable opinion about whatever you (and physicists?)
>> call: *"energy"*?
>> (Not how to measure it, not what it does, not the result of 'it', or
>> quantitative relations, or  kinds you differentiate, but 'is it a thing'?
>> where it comes from and how? i.e. an i*dentification of the term*, I
>> mean).
>>
>>
>>  Hmm.  It's the 00 component of the stress-energy tensor.  It's the
>> Hamiltonian, the time evolution operator.  It's not a thing.
>>
>> Brent
>>
>>
>>  I could not get a reasonable reply from physicists so far upon many such
>> questions. All 'cop-out' on paraphernalia I want to exclude.
>> (You remember: I have a Ph.D. chem-phys-math and 50 yrs in polymer
>> engineering).
>> Friendly:
>> John Mikes
>>
>>
>>
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