On 5 April 2012 20:58, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote: >> Comp + consciousness (the "internal view" of arithmetical truth) >> implies an infinity of possible histories, in which natural selection, >> of features advantageous to macroscopic entities inhabiting a >> macroscopic environment, is a particularly consistent strand. > > > I think that's the story even if comp is false.
I certainly hope so, if comp is to be consistent with physics. > Are you contemplating consciousness as a kind of equivalence relation that > picks out the different branches of Everett's MWI, i.e. solves the basis > problem of decoherence? That would seem to make every quasi-classical > object conscious. Well, one could argue for a subjective perspective centred on every quasi-classical object capable of instantiating the appropriate structural relations, both internally and with respect to its environment (to speak rather loosely). It is instructive in this regard to consider the effects of changes in brain structure on the range of possible human conscious states, which are so obviously dependent on such relations. For example, from the various stages of sleep, to the extreme impairment of the ability to integrate personal history characteristic of late-stage dementia (which is close to unconsciousness, I would speculate), culminating in the total loss of appropriate function characteristic of brain-death. >> But such a schema does entail a "causal" role for consciousness, as >> the unique integrator of discontinuous subjective perspectives, > > > To refer to 'subjective' perspectives seems to already assume consciousness. Yes I am indeed assuming it, as indispensable to the account, not in the sense of a causal role in the "physical" narrative, but rather in terms of the "universal mind" heuristic. I hope it's apparent that I'm not peddling some knock-down theory here, but rather proposing a possibly illuminating way of thinking about the various states of affairs that seem to require something supplementary to any possible objective account. It seems to me that there are three features of the subjective - but NOT the objective - account the presupposition of which is both indispensable and irreducible: (a) subjective localisation in terms of one of all possible such states; but also (b) the discontinuity and mutual exclusivity of such subjectively localised states (i.e. what we usually conceive as change of subjective location in time); (c) the subjective integration ("emergence") of epistemologically-composite states. The heuristic I have described allows one to render a coherent account, at least in broad outline, of the first two of these features. The final feature, that of the integration of epistemological composites, seems to me a particularly strong argument for the justification of consciousness as a "truth" as opposed to a mere belief, in that there is simply no need of the hypothesis of composition in the ontologically-reduced objective account. Be that as it may, it has proved to be an elusive intuition for many. David > On 4/5/2012 12:39 PM, David Nyman wrote: >> >> I confess this smells to me like the wrong sort of theory. On the >> other hand, if comp is true the story can be somewhat more subtle. >> Comp + consciousness (the "internal view" of arithmetical truth) >> implies an infinity of possible histories, in which natural selection, >> of features advantageous to macroscopic entities inhabiting a >> macroscopic environment, is a particularly consistent strand. > > > I think that's the story even if comp is false. > > >> It also >> entails parallel strands of "evolutionary history" - i.e. at the level >> of wave function - which need make no reference to any such macro >> features but nonetheless imply the same gross distributions of matter. > > > Are you contemplating consciousness as a kind of equivalence relation that > picks out the different branches of Everett's MWI, i.e. solves the basis > problem of decoherence? That would seem to make every quasi-classical > object conscious. > > >> But such a schema does entail a "causal" role for consciousness, as >> the unique integrator of discontinuous subjective perspectives, > > > To refer to 'subjective' perspectives seems to already assume consciousness. > > Brent > > >> but at >> a very different logical level than that of "physical causation" (i.e. >> the reductive structural relation between states). >> >> David > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.