On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 8:53 AM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com <mailto:johnkcl...@gmail.com>> wrote:

    On Tue, Jun 5, 2012  meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net 

        > while you do not *always* know what you're going to do, you know your
        preferences most of the time.

    And Turing proved that some of the time a computer can tell if it will 
    stop or not, but not all of the time.

        > The feeling of 'free will' comes from the inability retrospectively 
to see all
        the causes; so that, out of ignorance, it seems that one could have 
done otherwise.

    Yes, and unlike other definitions of "free will" this one is not gibberish, 
    when you boil it down all it's really saying is you don't know what you 
don't know.
    The highest status the philosophical "concept" called "free will" can 
aspire to is
    that of being right but trivially circular, most of the time it's not even 
    most of the time it's just gibberish.

Aside from the philosophical concept, there is the social/legal concept of not coerced, referred to as exercising 'free will', which is what Stenger proposes just to call "autonomy".


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