On 6/16/2012 6:12 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:


On Jun 15, 2012, at 7:05 AM, John Mikes<jami...@gmail.com>  wrote:

Dear Stathis

let me try to explain myself in a less "1st p. vocabulary".  As I explained I carry an 'agnostic' 
worldview, because over the past millennia the information what humanity gathered about "the world" 
increased steadily and we have so far no indication of having reached omniscience. So I believe you when 
asking out loud: "what ELSE is there?" and I have no answer of course. 2 trivial e.g.,-s:
# Before Volta there was no hint to 'electrical' (whatever that is) phenomena but after 
his observation a branch of developing physics speaks a lot of such. #The Flat Earth was 
also a notion (even the Bible speaks about "the 4 corners" of it) and newer 
information developed a different cosmology over the past centuries.
And so on, why not getting new information in mentality questions as well? or 
factors (even so far unknown 'domains') that may influence whatever we do  
know/think/choose?
No possible scientific discovery would make a difference to the debate on free 
will insofar as it is just a matter of semantics.


Hmm. You did not appreciate my hypothetical test in which it was found that physically uncaused events in the brain led to purposeful actions and decisions? Of course that would not *prove* contra causal free will, but I think it would be considered evidence for it, since it would be contrary to both all extant theories of physical determinism and randomness.

Brent


And may I throw back your term: the "choice" you ask about is a PSEUDO - 
choice, not choosing from ANYTHING (haphazardly), but within the given  possibilities 
(potentials) - in the unlimited complexity of which currently we know only a portion. 
More we know than yesterday or 1000 - 10,000 years ago, but believably less than we may 
learn hereafter. (I.e. in my agnosticism).
Can you have a choice if your actions are determined or random? That's the 
question. The answer is a question of taste. The reality of living your life 
and making choices or pseudo-choices has nothing to do with the answer.

(And you left untouched my question about  W H O  is discussing with YOUR brain 
- and how?)
I am, the entity generated by my brain or whatever is generating my 
consciousness. And that too is independent of the question of free will.

Stathis Papaioannou


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