John,
On 14 Jun 2012, at 23:05, John Mikes wrote:
Dear Stathis
let me try to explain myself in a less "1st p. vocabulary". As I
explained I carry an 'agnostic' worldview, because over the past
millennia the information what humanity gathered about "the world"
increased steadily and we have so far no indication of having
reached omniscience. So I believe you when asking out loud: "what
ELSE is there?" and I have no answer of course. 2 trivial e.g.,-s:
# Before Volta there was no hint to 'electrical' (whatever that is)
phenomena but after his observation a branch of developing physics
speaks a lot of such. #The Flat Earth was also a notion (even the
Bible speaks about "the 4 corners" of it) and newer information
developed a different cosmology over the past centuries.
And so on, why not getting new information in mentality questions as
well? or factors (even so far unknown 'domains') that may influence
whatever we do know/think/choose?
And may I throw back your term: the "choice" you ask about is a
PSEUDO - choice, not choosing from ANYTHING (haphazardly), but
within the given possibilities (potentials) - in the unlimited
complexity of which currently we know only a portion. More we know
than yesterday or 1000 - 10,000 years ago, but believably less than
we may learn hereafter. (I.e. in my agnosticism).
(And you left untouched my question about W H O is discussing with
YOUR brain - and how?)
John, I think science is always agnostic. We just don't know the
truth. What we can do is to propose and develop plausibility feelings
but nothing more. I think Stathis was just reasoning in some
determinist theory background, like QM-without-collapse or comp.
The art of science is the art of reasoning in theories, without ever
believing them. Only refuting them, sometimes, with luck.
Bruno
John Mikes Ph.D., D.Sc.
On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 7:29 PM, Stathis Papaioannou <[email protected]
> wrote:
On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 6:55 AM, John Mikes <[email protected]> wrote:
> Stathis, semantics is a fundamental principle as long as we 'talk
in wordly
> terms'. Did you get a letter from God Almighty confirming that
there is
> nothing more FOR DECISIONMAKING than your brain and your
------------- > environment? Sorry to denigrate a term within your
profession, but we -----
> know close to nothing about mentality, thinking in topical terms,
even ------> THAT DARN 'decisionmaking'.
> It may not be strictly deterministic, we MAY have SOME choice (all
these
> words from the 'pseudo' domain) but how impressive those (so far
unknowable)
> domains(?) or factors do influence "our brain(?)" has not been
known as of yesterday.
>
> (I am still hung up on your use of the number of people you are:
> "...if my actions are determined by my brain and my environment..."
> who is the 'you' discussing with 'your brain'? Are you compatible
with you?
> but that is an old hat).
Other than brain and environment, what else is there?
As for choice and determinism: I do exactly what I want to do, and if
I wanted do something else, I would do that. I consider that choice,
whether my behaviour is determined or random. In fact, I don't see
what "choice" could possibly mean if not this.
--
Stathis Papaioannou
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