On 6/17/2012 7:54 AM, John Clark wrote:
On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net
> I don' believe in this spirit theory anyway; I was just trying to show it
I have never understood why things are supposed to become less self-contradictory in the
"spirit world" than in our world or how spirit theory is somehow fundamentally different
from physical theory. If "spirit" caused X and X caused Y then both X and Y came into
existence by a deterministic process. As for spirit itself there are only two
possibilities, spirit came into existence for a reason or it did not, and you can say
exactly the same thing about an electron.
> Of course if you take Bruno's view then you risk making materialism an
theory, since no matter what result you can say,"Well it must be due to a
I don't see why it *MUST* be due to a deeper physical phenomenon; nearly every
physicists alive says some things have no cause and I can think of no obvious reason why
what they say MUST be untrue, so I'm pretty sure they're probably right. I said I
couldn't think of a reason but of course I could believe in mystical crap for no reason
whatsoever, lots and lots of people do exactly that, but apparently something has caused
me not to follow them and embrace the unreasoned life . And testable or not of one thing
I am certain, materialism is true or it is not; although I may never know which it MUST
nevertheless be true that everything happens for a reason or it does not. And I really
don't think any of this is rocket science.
I don't know whether you actually misunderstand or you just gloss over the distinction for
rhetorical purposes, but the question is not whether things happen for a reason or don't
happen for a reason. "X or not-X." is tautologically true. The question is whether the
reason has to be prior physical states. People who believe in a spirit world think not
and my point is that this is testable in principle. You may object that if a person in
physical state X on one occasion takes action A1 and on another occasion takes action A2,
it just randomness. But if A1 and A2 and Ai...all tend to acheiving a prior stated goal
of that person it is hard to maintain they are just random.
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