I don't know of this woman's account is anything like Bruno's experience or
not. I believe she still experiences a stream of consciousness, but her
visual sense is devoid of movement. She experiences only static frames:
One patient, LM, described pouring a cup of tea or coffee difficult
"because the fluid appeared to be frozen, like a
did not know when to stop pouring, because she could not perceive the
movement of the fluid rising.
On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 11:34 PM, Stephen P. King <stephe...@charter.net>wrote:
> On 9/10/2012 12:28 AM, Russell Standish wrote:
>> On Fri, Sep 07, 2012 at 07:24:02AM -0400, Stephen P. King wrote:
>>> Dear Bruno,
>>> Could you explain a bit more what the experience of "being
>>> conscious in a completely atemporal mode" was like? Where you aware
>>> of any kind of change in your environment? Was one's internal
>>> narrative (of external events) silent?
>>> I have always suspected that "subjective time might be a result
>>> of self-consciousness" but have not had any way of discussing the
>>> idea coherently. If we stipulate that "subjective time" is a form of
>>> noticing that one is noticing changes (a second order aspect) in
>>> one's environment, then this would fall into being a result of
>>> self-consciousness (which is obviously a second order effect at
>>> least to me). I have debated this idea before on this List with
>>> Russell Standish but we didn't seem to reach any definite
>>> Your proposition is basically what my TIME postulate is all
>> about. What Bruno is suggesting is that the smoking of certain plants
>> induces a conscious state that contradicts TIME. I'm not prepared at
>> this stage to follow in his footsteps, so have to simply take his
>> observations (and of others in the Salvia forum) on face value. I do not
>> know how TIME may be modified to reconcile it with this observation,
>> yet remain in place for the deduction of quantum mechanics.
>> Hi Russell,
> Perhaps what happens under these conditions is that the second order
> aspect is not measured and thus not observed. This would have the effect of
> making the passage of event into a continuous flow where we don't feel that
> change is happening at all. It would be like watching a clock and not
> noticing difference from the past positions of the hands; one would just be
> continuously in the moment of the position at the time. This would indicate
> an action of short term memory.
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Everything List" group.
> To post to this group, send email to
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscribe@
> **googlegroups.com <everything-list%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com>.
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/**
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Everything List" group.
To post to this group, send email to email@example.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
For more options, visit this group at