On 9/10/2012 1:29 AM, Jason Resch wrote:

I don't know of this woman's account is anything like Bruno's experience or not. I believe she still experiences a stream of consciousness, but her visual sense is devoid of movement. She experiences only static frames:

One patient, LM, described pouring a cup of tea or coffee difficult "because the fluid appeared to be frozen, like a glacier".^[5] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akinetopsia#cite_note-LM-4> She did not know when to stop pouring, because she could not perceive the movement of the fluid rising.



i Jason,

Isn't that exactly what I described? If you instantly forget what you experience, and yet the act of experiencing moves on... What is that like?

On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 11:34 PM, Stephen P. King <stephe...@charter.net <mailto:stephe...@charter.net>> wrote:

    On 9/10/2012 12:28 AM, Russell Standish wrote:

        On Fri, Sep 07, 2012 at 07:24:02AM -0400, Stephen P. King wrote:

            Dear Bruno,

                 Could you explain a bit more what the experience of
            conscious in a completely atemporal mode" was like? Where
            you aware
            of any kind of change in your environment? Was one's internal
            narrative (of external events) silent?

                 I have always suspected that "subjective time might
            be a result
            of self-consciousness" but have not had any way of
            discussing the
            idea coherently. If we stipulate that "subjective time" is
            a form of
            noticing that one is noticing changes (a second order
            aspect) in
            one's environment, then this would fall into being a result of
            self-consciousness (which is obviously a second order
            effect at
            least to me). I have debated this idea before on this List
            Russell Standish but we didn't seem to reach any definite

        Your proposition is basically what my TIME postulate is all
        about. What Bruno is suggesting is that the smoking of certain
        induces a conscious state that contradicts TIME. I'm not
        prepared at
        this stage to follow in his footsteps, so have to simply take his
        observations (and of others in the Salvia forum) on face
        value. I do not
        know how TIME may be modified to reconcile it with this
        yet remain in place for the deduction of quantum mechanics.


    Hi Russell,

        Perhaps what happens under these conditions is that the second
    order aspect is not measured and thus not observed. This would
    have the effect of making the passage of event into a continuous
    flow where we don't feel that change is happening at all. It would
    be like watching a clock and not noticing difference from the past
    positions of the hands; one would just be continuously in the
    moment of the position at the time. This would indicate an action
    of short term memory.




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