Hi Craig Weinberg  

Yes, time and space have to be together to be in spacetime. 
This is just basic astrophysics.  



Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 
9/23/2012  
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen 


----- Receiving the following content -----  
From: Craig Weinberg  
Receiver: everything-list  
Time: 2012-09-22, 10:53:02 
Subject: Re: Physics, Metaphysics, and Realism 




On Saturday, September 22, 2012 5:49:49 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: 
Hi Craig Weinberg  

I would classify your items as follows:  

MENTAL (outside of spacetime) :  All experiences, dreams, delusions, 
information, mathematics, logic, time,  
space, feelings, thoughts, ideas, numbers, life itself, God, monads, 
mathematics, physical laws themselves,  
theory of any type.  


Huh? You are classifying "time, space" as "(outside of spacetime)". 

If we recognize that experiences and dreams, feelings, thoughts, ideas, life 
itself, rely on significance which builds through story-like relations, and 
that they are not only cognitive but wordlessly emotional then I don't think 
that "MENTAL" is a meaningful category nor is it correct to consider these 
things separate from time. God, monads, physical laws, logic, mathematics, 
information, theories, etc are accessed through experiences in time, but 
represent space-like cognitive level qualia. 
  

  
PHYSICAL (within spacetime): Anything with dimensions, anything you can measure 
with physical instruments  
(even indirectly), weigh or see under a microscope or telescope, mass, energy, 
force, velocity, time, distance,  
voltage, optical or sound intensity, wave amplitude, dna type, cancer type, 
living tissue, dead tissue,  
flesh (brain).  


I reject the assumption that the experiential aspects are not 'physical' since 
our feelings and thoughts are profoundly and directly affected by physical 
changes. It makes more sense to understand that the difference is in public 
persistence across space as bodies as opposed to private experience through 
time as significance. 

Craig 

  


Roger Clough, rcl...@verizon.net  
9/22/2012    
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen  

=====================================================================  
----- Receiving the following content -----    
From: Craig Weinberg    
Receiver: everything-list    
Time: 2012-09-21, 10:58:11  
Subject: Physics, Metaphysics, and Realism  


I see all of our experiences, including dreams and delusions as being physical, 
but not necessarily ?eal?. To me, realism is a loose term describing the ?iddle 
of the road? range of experiences in which bodies and minds are clearly 
separate. The contrasting ?nreal? ranges are the profoundly 
spiritual/psychedelic/psychotic experiences and the profoundly 
logical/mathematical/abstracted principles, both of which can be understood as 
signifying real or more-than-real referents.  
Physical (< Unrealism of Logic < Realism of Bodies and Space ? Realism of 
Experiences and Time > Unrealism of Psyche >)*  
Metaphysical = Hypothetically outside of spacetime and matter.  
Energy = Logical conceptualization of the perception and participation of 
material bodies in spacetime.  
Information = Logical conceptualization of logic in spacetime.  
Logic = Phenomenology turned in on itself - subjectivity that seeks to evacuate 
subjectivity of itself, leaving purely universal and involuntary truths as a 
residual product.  
Psyche = Deep phenomenology. Unconstrained by logic, subjectivity is free to 
sense and dream itself into transpersonal and near-metaphysical ranges of 
experience.  


* This is the Multisense Continuum, which is involuted like a Mobius strip, and 
can be shuffled and turned around:  
< Unrealism of Logic  
< Realism of Bodies and Space ? Realism of Experiences and Time >  
Unrealism of Psyche >  
(? = ?erpendicular/orthogonal fold? relation of Pedestrian Realism, ie 
supermarket reality).  

? Realism of Experiences and Time >  
Unrealism of Psyche > < Unrealism of Logic  
< Realism of Bodies and Space ?  
(> < = ?vanescent dissolve? relation of Profound Unrealism, ie hypnogogic 
trance, epiphany, transcendence, enlightnenment)  

The contemporary cosmology I would describe this way:  

Information   Laws of Physics > Energy   Matter  ?  Space   Time    

The problems with this are embodied as problems with Idealism, Materialism, and 
Infocentrism, with each being unable to account for the prominence of the other 
without disqualifying it. Materialism makes information and subjectivity 
unreal, Idealism makes matter and spacetime unreal, Infocentricism makes matter 
and subjectivity unreal.  

Each of these three views have a blind spot for their own bias, which becomes 
pathological when applied in a thoroughly literal way to the the universe. 
Living beings become indistinguishable from programmed robots and animated 
cadavers. The world becomes an illusion conjurable by codes. We paint ourselves 
into a corner so that we are forced to conceive of ourselves paradoxically as 
epiphenomenal voyeurs yet inevitably omnipotent masters of the universe and 
ourselves.  

My approach, of course, is to weigh anchor with sense itself, as the primordial 
prerequisite of being and doing that is beneath and above all forms, materials, 
spaces, times, and subjective experiences. A neutral monism which projects 
itself within itself, always through juxtaposed experiences. Sense puts the 
'in' into information and makes structures matter.  


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