Hi Craig Weinberg Yes, time and space have to be together to be in spacetime. This is just basic astrophysics.
Roger Clough, [email protected] 9/23/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen ----- Receiving the following content ----- From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-22, 10:53:02 Subject: Re: Physics, Metaphysics, and Realism On Saturday, September 22, 2012 5:49:49 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: Hi Craig Weinberg I would classify your items as follows: MENTAL (outside of spacetime) : All experiences, dreams, delusions, information, mathematics, logic, time, space, feelings, thoughts, ideas, numbers, life itself, God, monads, mathematics, physical laws themselves, theory of any type. Huh? You are classifying "time, space" as "(outside of spacetime)". If we recognize that experiences and dreams, feelings, thoughts, ideas, life itself, rely on significance which builds through story-like relations, and that they are not only cognitive but wordlessly emotional then I don't think that "MENTAL" is a meaningful category nor is it correct to consider these things separate from time. God, monads, physical laws, logic, mathematics, information, theories, etc are accessed through experiences in time, but represent space-like cognitive level qualia. PHYSICAL (within spacetime): Anything with dimensions, anything you can measure with physical instruments (even indirectly), weigh or see under a microscope or telescope, mass, energy, force, velocity, time, distance, voltage, optical or sound intensity, wave amplitude, dna type, cancer type, living tissue, dead tissue, flesh (brain). I reject the assumption that the experiential aspects are not 'physical' since our feelings and thoughts are profoundly and directly affected by physical changes. It makes more sense to understand that the difference is in public persistence across space as bodies as opposed to private experience through time as significance. Craig Roger Clough, [email protected] 9/22/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen ===================================================================== ----- Receiving the following content ----- From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-21, 10:58:11 Subject: Physics, Metaphysics, and Realism I see all of our experiences, including dreams and delusions as being physical, but not necessarily ?eal?. To me, realism is a loose term describing the ?iddle of the road? range of experiences in which bodies and minds are clearly separate. The contrasting ?nreal? ranges are the profoundly spiritual/psychedelic/psychotic experiences and the profoundly logical/mathematical/abstracted principles, both of which can be understood as signifying real or more-than-real referents. Physical (< Unrealism of Logic < Realism of Bodies and Space ? Realism of Experiences and Time > Unrealism of Psyche >)* Metaphysical = Hypothetically outside of spacetime and matter. Energy = Logical conceptualization of the perception and participation of material bodies in spacetime. Information = Logical conceptualization of logic in spacetime. Logic = Phenomenology turned in on itself - subjectivity that seeks to evacuate subjectivity of itself, leaving purely universal and involuntary truths as a residual product. Psyche = Deep phenomenology. Unconstrained by logic, subjectivity is free to sense and dream itself into transpersonal and near-metaphysical ranges of experience. * This is the Multisense Continuum, which is involuted like a Mobius strip, and can be shuffled and turned around: < Unrealism of Logic < Realism of Bodies and Space ? Realism of Experiences and Time > Unrealism of Psyche > (? = ?erpendicular/orthogonal fold? relation of Pedestrian Realism, ie supermarket reality). ? Realism of Experiences and Time > Unrealism of Psyche > < Unrealism of Logic < Realism of Bodies and Space ? (> < = ?vanescent dissolve? relation of Profound Unrealism, ie hypnogogic trance, epiphany, transcendence, enlightnenment) The contemporary cosmology I would describe this way: Information Laws of Physics > Energy Matter ? Space Time The problems with this are embodied as problems with Idealism, Materialism, and Infocentrism, with each being unable to account for the prominence of the other without disqualifying it. Materialism makes information and subjectivity unreal, Idealism makes matter and spacetime unreal, Infocentricism makes matter and subjectivity unreal. Each of these three views have a blind spot for their own bias, which becomes pathological when applied in a thoroughly literal way to the the universe. Living beings become indistinguishable from programmed robots and animated cadavers. The world becomes an illusion conjurable by codes. We paint ourselves into a corner so that we are forced to conceive of ourselves paradoxically as epiphenomenal voyeurs yet inevitably omnipotent masters of the universe and ourselves. My approach, of course, is to weigh anchor with sense itself, as the primordial prerequisite of being and doing that is beneath and above all forms, materials, spaces, times, and subjective experiences. A neutral monism which projects itself within itself, always through juxtaposed experiences. Sense puts the 'in' into information and makes structures matter. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/jHjKd7AGTAYJ. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/Qaxgx6MxkXwJ. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
