On 23 Sep 2012, at 15:05, Roger Clough wrote:

Hi Evgenii Rudnyi


Phenomena are the how physical processes appear to our senses.
So they are appearances, not the processes themselves.
But scientific experiments and measurements are not
made on the appearances, they are made on the
processes. Thus the appearences areor [phenomena
are said to be "well-grounded"  in the processes themselves.

Kant spelled this out in great detail,  calling "noumena" the
actual physical process which we cannot reach by our senses,


And which does not exist, at least not in the sense that they cause our senses. This is the most counter-intuitive aspect of comp, as the physical process are projection on the conditions making the dream coherent.

What you describe here has to be locally, and statistically correct, but this is in need of verification, once we bet on comp.

Bruno



and the appearances of those noumena to the senses
he called "phenomena".

the following content -----
From: Evgenii Rudnyi
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-09-22, 09:26:55
Subject: Re: Physics, Metaphysics, and Realism


On 22.09.2012 14:09 Roger Clough said the following:
Hi Evgenii Rudnyi

Following Leibniz and Kant, what we see in the case of the table is
a "well-grounded phenomenon". That is, we do not see the table
itself, but as it appears to our senses. But the table is not an
illusion, it really is there, and we can place a pitchure of milk on
it with no problem and knock on its surface.

Now we should say where in the physical space this "well-grounded
phenomenon" is located. Otherwise we will have a problem with

PHYSICAL (within spacetime)

Evgenii




Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 9/22/2012 "Forever is a long time,
especially near the end." -Woody Allen


----- Receiving the following content ----- From: Evgenii Rudnyi
Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-22, 07:29:27 Subject: Re:
Physics, Metaphysics, and Realism


On 22.09.2012 11:48 Roger Clough said the following:
Hi Craig Weinberg

I would classify your items as follows:

MENTAL (outside of spacetime) : All experiences, dreams,
delusions, information, mathematics, logic, time, space, feelings,
thoughts, ideas, numbers, life itself, God, monads, mathematics,
physical laws themselves, theory of any type.

PHYSICAL (within spacetime): Anything with dimensions, anything
you can measure with physical instruments (even indirectly), weigh
or see under a microscope or telescope, mass, energy, force,
velocity, time, distance, voltage, optical or sound intensity, wave
amplitude, dna type, cancer type, living tissue, dead tissue, flesh
(brain).

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