On Thursday, September 27, 2012 3:02:52 PM UTC-4, Brent wrote:
> On 9/27/2012 8:06 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
> On Thursday, September 27, 2012 12:32:38 AM UTC-4, Brent wrote:
>> On 9/26/2012 9:27 PM, Stephen P. King wrote:
>> On 9/27/2012 12:19 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
>> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 2:01 PM, Craig Weinberg <whats...@gmail.com>wrote:
>> The problem is the assumption that they can only be one thing if they
>> the other. This kind of dualism is a prejudice of a particular phase of
>> scientific development that is overdue for reconciliation. By framing it
>> 'understandable vs mysterious' instead of public-spatial vs
>> private-temporal, we close off all possibility for progress. Do you think
>> that I don't know how effective the reductionist approach has been for
>> Western Civilization? The Catholic Church was deemed equally effective
>> during Galileo's time. You misunderstand my perspective and assume that I
>> talking about some new force outside of physics when what I am doing is
>> showing a way of integrating the obvious conditions of our experience
>> I think that realizing that cells are also our sub-personal experiences
>> will be the next two centuries of biological science.
>> But where do you get the idea that replacing a part of a cell with an
>> equivalent part will make a difference to the cell? You're speculating
>> that there is some special thing going on in cells that only you know
>> about and that has never been observed in centuries of laboratory
>> research. Isn't that a little bit arrogant?
>> No, Stathis,
>> Craig is pointing out that functions are not separable in the real
>> world. Nature does not build things in a gears and spring method, every
>> part of a cell is an integral part of a whole. If we are to replicate the
>> function of a cell exactly we must literally replicate all aspects of a
>> cell, or else we are making something completely different.
>> And you know this...how?
> Because of mortality and morbidity. Cells die. Bodies die. They cannot be
> revived, even with formaldehyde and electricity. If you cut a rat in half
> and then meticulously sew it back together, you still have two parts of a
> dead rat. We know from our own experience as well - we can't replace our
> youth with an equivalent part. Quantum wave functions may not seem to care
> whether time runs forward or backward, but experience does. We can't take
> out a part of a story and expect it to make sense in the same way, just as
> we can't replace words in a sentence and have it make sense in the exact
> same way. Interchangeability is not a given.
> Neither is non-interchanability. Rats can have their cells modified to
> produce luceferin, so they glow in the dark. But they are still
> functioning rats. Rats can have genes removed and still reproduce and be
> functioning rats (that's why we know there is some 'junk' DNA). Your logic
> is a little screwed up: X can't be interchanged with Y, doesn't imply
> ~Ex(x can be interchanged wiht Y).
A glow in the dark rat may seem like a functioning rat to you, but probably
wouldn't be much good for avoiding nocturnal predators from the rat's
perspective. I understand your point though, and I never intended to claim
that living cells cannot be tampered with in any way, I only say that I
think that the particular significance of the irreversibility of death and
the potential for a quality of dread or grief associated with it is not
reproducible in the inorganic world.
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