On Thursday, October 11, 2012 12:41:29 PM UTC-4, yanniru wrote:
> Brent, 
> According to Einstein it takes massive objects to warp spacetime. 
> Therefore a warped spacetime cannot be empty. 

Sure it can. What is mass? A relation between objects. Relativity shows us 
nothing if not that. Earth isn't orbiting a point in space, it is revolving 
around the sun, and will continue to do that regardless of where the sun 

> The apparently flat spacetime that exists 

The idea of spacetime being flat is pure analogy. There is no flatness or 
warpedness to spacetime - only to the functions of objects in relation to 
each other. Flat and warped are metaphorical - statistical, like a 
'flatline' on an EEG or income report. There is nothing there at all in 
reality. Space is that which subjects infer is not separates objects from 
being the same thing. It's like the spaces between these letters - there 
isn't anything there to warp, but if I stretch the letters with Photoshop 
in an orderly way, I have figuratively changed their spatial 
relation...because I have altered the pixels, not because space actually 

> is due to dark energy, dark matter and visible matter. 
> Although flat, it is hardly considered to be empty. 

Adding epicycles for 40 years... I feel certain that it is only a 'matter 
of time' before the whole Dr. Suess tower collapses into ashes and smoke. 
'Dark' just means 'our equations only work if something were right here'. 
The Emperor's Dark Clothes, I say. Clearly. Obviously. I would bet my life 
on it.


> Richard 

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