On Friday, October 12, 2012 8:15:42 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote:
> Hi John Clark
> IMHO everything that happens happens for a reason.
> The reason can be physical or IMHO mental.
Ok, but why are there any 'reasons' to begin with? If there can be reasons
which did not exist before, then something must be able to create new
reasons. We are one of those things. We can create our own reasons by
clutching a bundle of sub-personal reasons and tying them together with a
strand of super-personal reasons and harness that rope for *our own
personal reason* which is not reducible to either sub, super, or impersonal
exteriors. This is free will, or at least will with degrees of freedom.
> The former is not free will, the latter has some possibility of being
> free to some extent, that is to say, to be self-intentioned. My claim is
> self-intentioned acts are the products of intelligence.
> Which is IMHO why life, intelligence and free will are inseparable.
> Only living entities can perform self-intentioned choices or acts.
> Now self-intentioned acts require, obviously, an agent, a self,
> meaning that which intends to act or does act. In Leibniz's
> metaphysics, the self is a monad. Materialism does not
> seem to have such an agent.
> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen
> ----- Receiving the following content -----
> From: John Clark
> Receiver: everything-list
> Time: 2012-10-11, 13:14:54
> Subject: Re: Re: Zombieopolis Thought Experiment
> On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at? Roger Clough wrote:
> > Free Will-- You need enough freedom
> My difficulty with the "free will" noise is not the "will" part, you want
> to do some things and don't want to do others and that's clear, my
> difficulty is with the "free" part; and all you're saying is that free will
> is a will that is free so that does not help me.
> > to make a choice of your own.
> A choice made for a reason or a choice made for no reason; it's
> deterministic or it's random.
> > Strictly speaking, I prefer the term "self-determination" meaning by
> anything inside your skin.
> And that thing inside your skin that made you choose X rather than Y came
> to be there for a reason (memory, your DNA, environmental factors, etc)? or
> it came to be inside your skin for no reason at all in which case it was
> random. I still have absolutely no idea what the "free will" noise is
> supposed to mean and a very much doubt that you or anybody else does
> either; and yet despite not having the slightest idea of what it means they
> will continue to passionately believe it. Weird. I neither believe nor
> disbelieve in "free will".?
> ? John K Clark
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Everything List" group.
> To post to this group, send email to
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> For more options, visit this group at
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Everything List" group.
To view this discussion on the web visit
To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
For more options, visit this group at