On 11 Oct 2012, at 16:20, John Clark wrote:

On Wed, Oct 10, 2012  Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

On 10 Oct 2012, at 13:31, Roger Clough wrote:

>> Hi Bruno Marchal

I think that consciousness, intelligence and some measure of free will are
necessary and inseparable parts of life itself.

                                   /         \
                                  /           \
                                /              \
                              /      life       \
                             /                    \
                            /                      \
                   free will------------------intelligence

> I agree with this.

I'm curious what there is in "free will" that you agree with, I neither agree nor disagree with it.

Keep in mind that I use the compatibilist definition of free will, which is the (machine) ability to exploits its self-indetermination (with indetermination in the Turing sense, (not in the comp first person sense, nor the quantum one). It is basically the ability to do conscious choice.

Then I propose the following semi-axiom for consciousness: that it is true and undoubtable, and non justifiable rationally (+ invariant for some digital transformations, but I don't use this here).

Then I can argue (and have done so already in different places) that:

Intelligence implies free will, and free will implies consciousness. The reverse are more delicate.

Of course here intelligence is used in the sense of Krishnamurti, not in the sense of "competence".

Intelligence is needed to *develop* competence, but competence has most often a negative feedback on intelligence. People can be aware of their competence, but not really of their intelligence.

Intelligence is almost nothing more than an awareness of our limitations, related to an ability of changing one's mind. Like consciousness, intelligence cannot be formally defined. I conjecture that intelligence is a natural product of love, at least for the humans, although this seems confirmed by the study of rats and chimpanzees (but only through competence test, which can show the presence of intelligence, but cannot show the absence of it).



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