Bruno, especially in my identification as "responding to relations". Now the "Self"? IT certainly refers to a more sophisticated level of thinking, more so than the average (animalic?) mind. - OR: we have no idea. What WE call 'Self-Ccness' is definitely a human attribute because WE identify it that way. I never talked to a cauliflower to clarify whether she feels like having a self? (In cauliflowerese, of course). JM
On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 10:39 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote: > > On 17 Oct 2012, at 19:19, Roger Clough wrote: > > Hi Bruno Marchal >> >> IMHO all life must have some degree of consciousness >> or it cannot perceive its environment. >> > > Are you sure? > > Would you say that the plants are conscious? I do think so, but I am not > sure they have self-consciousness. > > Self-consciousness accelerates the information treatment, and might come > from the need of this for the self-movie living creature having some > important mass. > > "all life" is a very fuzzy notion. > > Bruno > > > > > > > >> >> Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net >> 10/17/2012 >> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen >> >> >> ----- Receiving the following content ----- >> From: Bruno Marchal >> Receiver: everything-list >> Time: 2012-10-17, 10:13:37 >> Subject: Re: Continuous Game of Life >> >> >> >> >> On 16 Oct 2012, at 18:37, John Clark wrote: >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 2:40 PM, meekerdb wrote: >> >> >> If consciousness doesn't do anything then Evolution can't see it, so >>>> how and why did Evolution produce it? The fact that you have no answer to >>>> this means your ideas are fatally flawed. >>>> >>> >> I don't see this as a *fatal* flaw. Evolution, as you've noted, is not a >>> paradigm of efficient design. Consciousness might just be a side-effect >>> >> >> But that's exactly what I've been saying for months, unless Darwin was >> dead wrong consciousness must be a side effect of intelligence, so a >> intelligent computer must be a conscious computer. And I don't think Darwin >> was dead wrong. >> >> >> >> >> >> Darwin does not need to be wrong. Consciousness role can be deeper, in >> the "evolution/selection" of the laws of physics from the coherent dreams >> (computations from the 1p view) in arithmetic. >> >> >> Bruno >> >> >> >> >> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~**marchal/ <http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To post to this group, send email to >> everything-list@googlegroups.**com<everything-list@googlegroups.com> >> . >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> everything-list+unsubscribe@**googlegroups.com<everything-list%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> >> . >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** >> group/everything-list?hl=en<http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en> >> . >> >> > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~**marchal/ <http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/> > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to > everything-list@googlegroups.**com<everything-list@googlegroups.com> > . > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscribe@ > **googlegroups.com <everything-list%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** > group/everything-list?hl=en<http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en> > . > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
