On 10/20/2012 5:16 PM, John Mikes wrote:
Bruno,
especially in my identification as "responding to relations".
Now the "Self"? IT certainly refers to a more sophisticated level of
thinking, more so than the average (animalic?) mind. - OR: we have no
idea. What WE call 'Self-Ccness' is definitely a human attribute
because WE identify it that way. I never talked to a cauliflower to
clarify whether she feels like having a self? (In cauliflowerese, of
course).
JM
If we where cauliflowers, we would have no concept of what it would
be like to be "human" or, maybe, that humans even exist!
On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 10:39 AM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On 17 Oct 2012, at 19:19, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Bruno Marchal
IMHO all life must have some degree of consciousness
or it cannot perceive its environment.
Are you sure?
Would you say that the plants are conscious? I do think so, but I
am not sure they have self-consciousness.
Self-consciousness accelerates the information treatment, and
might come from the need of this for the self-movie living
creature having some important mass.
"all life" is a very fuzzy notion.
Bruno
Roger Clough, [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
10/17/2012
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen
----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Bruno Marchal
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2012-10-17, 10:13:37
Subject: Re: Continuous Game of Life
On 16 Oct 2012, at 18:37, John Clark wrote:
On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 2:40 PM, meekerdb wrote:
If consciousness doesn't do anything then Evolution
can't see it, so how and why did Evolution produce it?
The fact that you have no answer to this means your
ideas are fatally flawed.
I don't see this as a *fatal* flaw. Evolution, as you've
noted, is not a paradigm of efficient design.
Consciousness might just be a side-effect
But that's exactly what I've been saying for months, unless
Darwin was dead wrong consciousness must be a side effect of
intelligence, so a intelligent computer must be a conscious
computer. And I don't think Darwin was dead wrong.
Darwin does not need to be wrong. Consciousness role can be
deeper, in the "evolution/selection" of the laws of physics
from the coherent dreams (computations from the 1p view) in
arithmetic.
Bruno
--
Onward!
Stephen
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