But I don not mean such kind of anticipation. such anticipation by
gathering information and computation is a fundamental activity of
living beings.  I refer to adivination. I suppose that a definition of
adivination is the anticipation of something for which we have no
conscious or unconscious inference possible. To anticipate that a
policeman knoking on the door will tell us bad news is not
adivination, for example.

2012/10/25 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>:
>
> On 24 Oct 2012, at 19:31, Alberto G. Corona wrote:
>
> I dont believe that such genuine anticipation is possible, for a simple
> reason: If for quantum or relativistic means the mind or the brain could
> genuinely anticipate anything, this would be such a huge advantage, that
> this hability would be inherited genetically by everyone of us, every human
> plant, animal with the most accurate precission. because it would be so
> critical.
>
> The fact is the we have no such hability. the most we can do is to simulate
> it with the available data, gatering as much as possible information from
> the behaviour, faces etc of other human beings and we process it
> unconsciously. Most of the time even we are not conscious of how much
> information we gather.
>
>
> I think we anticipate all the time. At every second. When we drive a car, we
> anticipate the movement and correct it accordingly. There are many picture
> of object lacking a crucial elements which when shown rapidly to subject
> makes the subject swearing having seen the lacking elements. When shown more
> slowly after, the subject is usually astonished to see they were lacking. A
> part of that anticipation is part of Hobson theory of dream, where the
> cerebral stem might sent to the cortex quasi random information, and the
> dreams is the result of the cortex anticipating sense from that crude
> information. A building of an hypothesis/theory and its momentary admission
> is also a form of anticipation. Everyone anticipate that tomorrow the sun
> will rise.
> If you decide to open your fridge you anticipate the vague shape of what you
> can see in your fridge. It is far more efficient than analyse the data like
> if they were new.
> I don't think there is anything controversial here. Helmholtz theory is
> usually accepted as a base in pattern recognition, and basic perception. It
> is rather well tested.
> More provocative perhaps: I personally would not been so much astonished
> that evolution itself does make variate sort of anticipation. I would not
> find this utterly shocking, as genetic algorithm can isolate anticipative
> programs, like brains are. It would just means that some brain-like
> mechanism has already appear at the level of the genome, but on a scale
> which makes it hard to be detected for us. I am not sure at all about this,
> but I see nothing really "magical" if such thing was detected.
>
> Bruno
>
>
>
>
>
> 2012/10/24 Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2012/10/24 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 24 Oct 2012, at 14:31, Stephen P. King wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.frontiersin.org/Perception_Science/10.3389/fpsyg.2012.00390/abstract
>>>>    Comments?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If verified it might confirms Helmholtz intuition that "perception" is
>>> "unconscious anticipation".
>>>
>>> It would be the Dt of the Bp & Dt. It is natural with the finding that
>>> when we "perceive objects" a big deal of information does not come from the
>>> data but from the brains (memories, constructions, gap fillings, ...)
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I struggle with the psicho-slang to ascertain what they really said.
>>
>> From some comentaires:
>>
>>  The title and intro leave out the fact that a likely cause -- cited by
>> the highest-quality study -- is the experimental methods. I am curious if
>> any of the experiments attempted to automate both stimulus presentation and
>> data analysis to avoid experimenter effects.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> It may be a variation of the case of subtle perception of the experimenter
>> intentions by the subjects under test.
>>
>> I remember the case of a Horse that apparently know how to multiply
>> numbers. The horse stopped khocking on the floor when the experimenter moved
>> in a certain way when the number of knocks reached the correct result. The
>> experimenter did not realized that he was sending the signal "enough" to the
>> horse.
>>
>> This may be a more sophisticated case of the same phenomenon. In this case
>> the signal could be "be prepared because we are going to do this or that".
>> Neiter the experimeinte nor the subject of the experiment have to be
>> conscious of that signal. There are a largue number of bad psychological
>> experiments with these flaws. One of the last ones, the subject of these
>> experiment was myself with my otolaryngologist who, to test my audition
>> performance, advised me when I supposedly must hear a weak sound instead of
>> shut up and wait.
>>
>>>
>>> Some comment in your links above seems to confirm this analysis, but I
>>> have not really the time to dig deeper.
>>>
>>> Bruno
>>>
>>>
>>> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Alberto.
>
>
>
>
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> Alberto.
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Alberto.

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