But I don not mean such kind of anticipation. such anticipation by gathering information and computation is a fundamental activity of living beings. I refer to adivination. I suppose that a definition of adivination is the anticipation of something for which we have no conscious or unconscious inference possible. To anticipate that a policeman knoking on the door will tell us bad news is not adivination, for example.
2012/10/25 Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>: > > On 24 Oct 2012, at 19:31, Alberto G. Corona wrote: > > I dont believe that such genuine anticipation is possible, for a simple > reason: If for quantum or relativistic means the mind or the brain could > genuinely anticipate anything, this would be such a huge advantage, that > this hability would be inherited genetically by everyone of us, every human > plant, animal with the most accurate precission. because it would be so > critical. > > The fact is the we have no such hability. the most we can do is to simulate > it with the available data, gatering as much as possible information from > the behaviour, faces etc of other human beings and we process it > unconsciously. Most of the time even we are not conscious of how much > information we gather. > > > I think we anticipate all the time. At every second. When we drive a car, we > anticipate the movement and correct it accordingly. There are many picture > of object lacking a crucial elements which when shown rapidly to subject > makes the subject swearing having seen the lacking elements. When shown more > slowly after, the subject is usually astonished to see they were lacking. A > part of that anticipation is part of Hobson theory of dream, where the > cerebral stem might sent to the cortex quasi random information, and the > dreams is the result of the cortex anticipating sense from that crude > information. A building of an hypothesis/theory and its momentary admission > is also a form of anticipation. Everyone anticipate that tomorrow the sun > will rise. > If you decide to open your fridge you anticipate the vague shape of what you > can see in your fridge. It is far more efficient than analyse the data like > if they were new. > I don't think there is anything controversial here. Helmholtz theory is > usually accepted as a base in pattern recognition, and basic perception. It > is rather well tested. > More provocative perhaps: I personally would not been so much astonished > that evolution itself does make variate sort of anticipation. I would not > find this utterly shocking, as genetic algorithm can isolate anticipative > programs, like brains are. It would just means that some brain-like > mechanism has already appear at the level of the genome, but on a scale > which makes it hard to be detected for us. I am not sure at all about this, > but I see nothing really "magical" if such thing was detected. > > Bruno > > > > > > 2012/10/24 Alberto G. Corona <[email protected]> >> >> >> >> 2012/10/24 Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> >>> >>> >>> On 24 Oct 2012, at 14:31, Stephen P. King wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> http://www.frontiersin.org/Perception_Science/10.3389/fpsyg.2012.00390/abstract >>>> Comments? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> If verified it might confirms Helmholtz intuition that "perception" is >>> "unconscious anticipation". >>> >>> It would be the Dt of the Bp & Dt. It is natural with the finding that >>> when we "perceive objects" a big deal of information does not come from the >>> data but from the brains (memories, constructions, gap fillings, ...) >>> >> >> >> >> I struggle with the psicho-slang to ascertain what they really said. >> >> From some comentaires: >> >> The title and intro leave out the fact that a likely cause -- cited by >> the highest-quality study -- is the experimental methods. I am curious if >> any of the experiments attempted to automate both stimulus presentation and >> data analysis to avoid experimenter effects. >> >> >> >> >> >> It may be a variation of the case of subtle perception of the experimenter >> intentions by the subjects under test. >> >> I remember the case of a Horse that apparently know how to multiply >> numbers. The horse stopped khocking on the floor when the experimenter moved >> in a certain way when the number of knocks reached the correct result. The >> experimenter did not realized that he was sending the signal "enough" to the >> horse. >> >> This may be a more sophisticated case of the same phenomenon. In this case >> the signal could be "be prepared because we are going to do this or that". >> Neiter the experimeinte nor the subject of the experiment have to be >> conscious of that signal. There are a largue number of bad psychological >> experiments with these flaws. One of the last ones, the subject of these >> experiment was myself with my otolaryngologist who, to test my audition >> performance, advised me when I supposedly must hear a weak sound instead of >> shut up and wait. >> >>> >>> Some comment in your links above seems to confirm this analysis, but I >>> have not really the time to dig deeper. >>> >>> Bruno >>> >>> >>> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Everything List" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Alberto. > > > > > -- > Alberto. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- Alberto. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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