On 25 Oct 2012, at 17:55, Alberto G. Corona wrote:

But I don not mean such kind of anticipation. such anticipation by
gathering information and computation is a fundamental activity of
living beings.

OK.



I refer to adivination. I suppose that a definition of
adivination is the anticipation of something for which we have no
conscious or unconscious inference possible. To anticipate that a
policeman knoking on the door will tell us bad news is not
adivination, for example.


OK. I am not sure the paper under discussion spoke of adivination, even if the title and some paragraph are not completely clear on this (to attract reader perhaps).

Bruno



2012/10/25 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>:

On 24 Oct 2012, at 19:31, Alberto G. Corona wrote:

I dont believe that such genuine anticipation is possible, for a simple reason: If for quantum or relativistic means the mind or the brain could genuinely anticipate anything, this would be such a huge advantage, that this hability would be inherited genetically by everyone of us, every human plant, animal with the most accurate precission. because it would be so
critical.

The fact is the we have no such hability. the most we can do is to simulate it with the available data, gatering as much as possible information from
the behaviour, faces etc of other human beings and we process it
unconsciously. Most of the time even we are not conscious of how much
information we gather.


I think we anticipate all the time. At every second. When we drive a car, we anticipate the movement and correct it accordingly. There are many picture of object lacking a crucial elements which when shown rapidly to subject makes the subject swearing having seen the lacking elements. When shown more slowly after, the subject is usually astonished to see they were lacking. A part of that anticipation is part of Hobson theory of dream, where the cerebral stem might sent to the cortex quasi random information, and the
dreams is the result of the cortex anticipating sense from that crude
information. A building of an hypothesis/theory and its momentary admission is also a form of anticipation. Everyone anticipate that tomorrow the sun
will rise.
If you decide to open your fridge you anticipate the vague shape of what you can see in your fridge. It is far more efficient than analyse the data like
if they were new.
I don't think there is anything controversial here. Helmholtz theory is usually accepted as a base in pattern recognition, and basic perception. It
is rather well tested.
More provocative perhaps: I personally would not been so much astonished that evolution itself does make variate sort of anticipation. I would not find this utterly shocking, as genetic algorithm can isolate anticipative
programs, like brains are. It would just means that some brain-like
mechanism has already appear at the level of the genome, but on a scale which makes it hard to be detected for us. I am not sure at all about this,
but I see nothing really "magical" if such thing was detected.

Bruno





2012/10/24 Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com>



2012/10/24 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>


On 24 Oct 2012, at 14:31, Stephen P. King wrote:


http://www.frontiersin.org/Perception_Science/10.3389/fpsyg.2012.00390/abstract
  Comments?





If verified it might confirms Helmholtz intuition that "perception" is
"unconscious anticipation".

It would be the Dt of the Bp & Dt. It is natural with the finding that when we "perceive objects" a big deal of information does not come from the data but from the brains (memories, constructions, gap fillings, ...)




I struggle with the psicho-slang to ascertain what they really said.

From some comentaires:

The title and intro leave out the fact that a likely cause -- cited by the highest-quality study -- is the experimental methods. I am curious if any of the experiments attempted to automate both stimulus presentation and
data analysis to avoid experimenter effects.





It may be a variation of the case of subtle perception of the experimenter
intentions by the subjects under test.

I remember the case of a Horse that apparently know how to multiply
numbers. The horse stopped khocking on the floor when the experimenter moved in a certain way when the number of knocks reached the correct result. The experimenter did not realized that he was sending the signal "enough" to the
horse.

This may be a more sophisticated case of the same phenomenon. In this case the signal could be "be prepared because we are going to do this or that".
Neiter the experimeinte nor the subject of the experiment have to be
conscious of that signal. There are a largue number of bad psychological experiments with these flaws. One of the last ones, the subject of these experiment was myself with my otolaryngologist who, to test my audition performance, advised me when I supposedly must hear a weak sound instead of
shut up and wait.


Some comment in your links above seems to confirm this analysis, but I
have not really the time to dig deeper.

Bruno


http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/




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