On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 8:57 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

> Amnesic can survive.

Can they? If I erased all of your memories and replaced them with new and
different ones then saying  Bruno Marchal still survives would be like
saying a dead Bruno Marchal still survives because his twin brother, who
was separated at birth and never met, still survives.

> > but your question is irrelevant as we both have already agree that the
> H-man survives in bit W and M. They have both the right to say they are the
> H-man.

But the H-man doesn't have the right to call himself the W or M man because
they don't exist yet and the future is always uncertain.

>>I repeat my challenge, please give an example of 2 brains that are
>> identical in form and operation from the third party point of view but
>> different from the first party point of view, from anybody or anything's
>> first, second or N'th party point of view.
> > You asked me this 10 times already, and I have always answer the same
> thing: two identical brain leads to the same first person experience


> > but the same first person experience can be brought by different brain.

Which makes it one first person experience not two.

>I think we agree.

So stop telling me I'm confused and that something is true from the third
person but not the first person.

> You just forget that the prediction is asked on the first person feeling

Which we've just agree is the same as a third person feeling if that third
person had a identical brain.

> >> When "you" open the box one of "you" will see Washington and turn into
> the Washington man and one of "you" will see Moscow and turn into the
> Moscow man.
> > Exactly.
> >> And both will be the Helsinki man
> > Exactly.
> >> and both will retain a equal right to use the title "you" yet neither
> will be each other because YOU HAVE BEEN DUPLICATED.
> > Exactly, and that is why the Helsinki guy cannot be sure if he will
> experience seeing W or M.

WHO THE HELL IS "HE"??? Bruno Marchal just agreed that the Helsinki guy
will turn into the Washington guy and see Washington AND Bruno Marchal just
agreed that the Helsinki guy will turn into the Moscow guy and see Moscow
so obviously the Helsinki guy will see Moscow AND the Helsinki guy will see
Washington. As for what this mysterious amorphous ambiguous entity named
"he" will see who the hell knows, or cares.

> You just explain the indeterminacy, which is not paradoxical because YOU

Yes YOU HAVE BEEN DUPLICATED, so when Bruno Marchal asks the question "what
city will "you" see?" who is supposed to be doing the seeing?  And given
that both the duplication and the seeing happens in the future who is Bruno
Marchal asking the question of?

> You just agreed above (and before) that the W-man and the W-man have the
> right to say he is the H-man.

Yes but the H-man doesn't have the right to call himself the W-man or the
M-man because while the H-man exists they do not, not yet, and nobody
identifies with their future self but with their past self; that's why we
see the past differently than the future.

  John K Clark

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