# Re: Avoiding the use of the word God

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On 17 Dec 2012, at 22:55, Stephen P. King wrote:```
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```On 12/17/2012 2:15 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
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Is it possible to define a "relative probability" in the case where it is not possible to count or otherwise partition the members of the ensemble?
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Yes. "relative probability" is not necessarily a constructive notion.
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```Dear Bruno,

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Is this not a confession that there is something fundamentally non-computable in the notion of a relative measure?
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I have always insisted on that non computability of the relative measure. Anyway, I start from comp and I deduce only (with some definitions). It is not like if we had any choice in the matter.
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I know about this from my study of the problem of the axiom of choice, but I would like to see your opinion on this.
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I don't do set theory. the axiom of choice is not needed.

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```Not that I know of! If you know how, please explain this to me!
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Normally if you follow the UDA you might understand intuitively why the relative probability are a priori not constructive. So you can't use them in practice, but you still can use them to derive physics, notably because the case "P = 1" can be handled at the proposition level through the logic of self-references (Bp & Dt, p sigma_1).
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Was it not Penrose that was roundly criticized to claiming that there had to be something non-computable in physics? It seems that you might have proven his case!
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Indeed. Maudlin already, in psyche, shows that comp entails some conclusion by Penrose. Too bad Penrose derived then from non-comp.
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I go much further (faster!) and claim that this non-constructable aspect is the main reason why there cannot exist a pre-established harmony in the Laplacean sense of the universe.
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At first sight this is wrong for me, but you can try an argument. Comp assume arithmetic which can be seen as a pre-established harmony, but of course that term can get many other interpretations.
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Bruno

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Onward!

Stephen

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http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/

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